[sadbot]

I've been saying this since before the rework even hit, and that as a result there is no winning scenario. It's almost impossible to balance correctly, and even in the pretend scenario where hit and evade is perfectly balanced it's still just unfun to lose that numbers game after being forced to invest everything into it, hurting build diversity in a big way as well by the by. Unfortunately this seems to be an unpopular opinion compared to the various different takes on how to balance things, and at this point it seems like the time for reversion has passed as much as I wish we could return to an amended version of pre GR2 evasion.

[Lolzytripd]

Which one though, you see I'm perfectly happy with removing glancing all together going back to just full evade. I'm completely 100% against evade just being a different color of DR. You can give me all the big text in the world saying EVASION YOU A GOOD BOI, but if I take damage from your skill anyway I'm calling you a dirty liar, I'm just a fat tank building one stat instead of two.

I only support glancing because it was the only way to calm the masses of babies that can't handle failure.

[sadbot]

It's all well and good to want evasion to feel thematically EVASIVE and not just another version of DR. Unfortunately, the only way to make it not just a different shade of damage reduction is to make it some form of full dodge, which comes with a laundry list of its own problems when it comes to pvp which we are currently seeing.

[Snake]

The drawbacks and benefits need to be less simplistic if the system will ever be favorable for both sides.

Here I sit waiting for stamina system, as it seems to be the more fair out of everything we've been whining thus far. It'd make for an interesting mechanic for fragile people's defenses be based on resource management of what makes them able to avoid something or not, and also encourage them to not go for prolonged combat without drawbacks.

[Skimmy2]

Personally I wish that we can make 1 other Attribute provide +1 to Hit rather then forcing every single person to invest into Skill for all of their Hit needs, which is probably the most determinatal change that has occurred to the system.

Evade could use a slight buff as well, regardless of my Hit desires, as it is inadequate compared to tank builds.

As far as Glancing goes, iv been quite pleased with how it works currently.

[HaTeD]

cant give one stat something without giving its counterplay an equal measure.

even then, this wont solve the issue at hand between hit and evade.

[Sawrock]

I haven’t done serious PVP in forever so please point out any flaws in anything I’m saying here.

If autohits hit like a basic uncrit attack and evade was a secondary form of defense against criticals and a primary defense against strong to-hit skills (like EI back in the day) that would give it a specialized role as compared to defense/resistance.

If we also had turn order based purely on CEL that would also be favorable, as it gives another purpose to having CEL in team building. Of course, there’s the downside in 4v4s where all four high-CEL members attack and defeat one member at start to make it a 4v3, but if we could have start positions be chosen freely from half the board, or dare I say customizable battle sizes, that could be allievated.

Also, adding a variety of skills could help too. Fir could be affected by evade normally, and there could be a weaker Fir- Fff- that could have autohit on all ground-based enemies for heating the ground up momentarily, or InVyd where you try to manipulate the air in the target’s lungs (which would be much weaker, as the lung is the strongest bone in the human body).

With that in mind, we could even remove momentum altogether. Remember pixel-based movement? We could have our weapon sprites infront of our body, and if we hit someone with it they would take damage. We’d need some good rotation keys though, I’m thinking about tab and right shift as they’re about the same position on opposite sides of the keyboard.

We could even make it so guns have to reload in the middle of combat, and if you have higher CEL you can reload it one second quicker per CEL, unless you’re using a musket then one minute faster per CEL. Honesty though I’ve never used a musket in my life so someone please fact-check me on that.

Altogether, I feel in the attempt to make everything equally balanced- so classes can fight evenly in 1v1s especially- has led to such universalization that any attempts to further even the paying field will only lead to adjustments where one benefit jumps ahead of the other instead of having each benefit be uniquely applicable to certain roles. Choosing between tank or dodge is more about what flavor you want your character to defend with instead of an active style of fighting that has consequences, advantages and coupons.

[Lolzytripd]

The problem was, we got to the point where most autohit skills were better than basic attacks and basic attack skills, unless you were a crit build with lots of crit damage mod.