[Balthie]

So. It's been a long time coming.

Earth as an Elemental Impact has been classically underwhelming, and severely hit or miss.
It comes in two flavours for the most part- either the intensely boring and near-unnoticable flat damage, or suddenly out of pocket badassery like seeking shinken and quaking crystal rose.
But, despite those occasional stand-outs and the deeply rare historic bouts of earth being overpowered a la quaking heaven kick or the deeply cursed roundtrip after the OG soldier rework, the vast majority of earth skills remain the former. Unnoticable added flat damage that feels like you don't have an elemental impact at all, even if they're subtly helping.

Let's change that. I'm pretty sure almost all of us would be happier with earth having more noticable, interactable effects.
Initially I'd intended to make a discussion thread for brainstorming, but chatting on this in another chat let me onto an idea I quite adore- with Mess and Autumn in particular lending healthy thoughts.


In my thoughts, I'd like to see all earth impacts that just add flat damage to instead lay a new tile effect; it could well be called anything along the lines of worked ground, unstable ground, crystal formations or any other fluff that's appropriate. In effect, "prepared" earth.
This on it's own wouldn't do too much, in this suggestion. Perhaps it would remove or lower the LV/Dur of enemy tile effects it's placed over innately, a la Autumn's suggestions on it, but the larger point is thus-

The tiles would instead be more of a combo focused tool.

I'll consider it as a "detonation" for the sake of this post, but obviously other effects from suggestions may be more appropriate.
Let's say you quaking sidecut over someone. You do the sidecut as normal, but the "quaking" has prepared the ground you travelled over, laying the tiles in the same way as blazing or freezing. Since they don't do anything innately, however, the target isn't just treated to eating free damage.
Instead, you turn and slap them with a quaking crystal rose- and the usage of that over the aforementioned tiles "activates" them for a one-time-only effect, in this example a detonation.

There are a few advantages and variables here.
On the side of advantages, there's some pretty rad ones;
⚬ It's far less cheesable than some of the nonsense of the past, i.e. the push-pulls bringing endless cinders/frostbite balancing in the past.
⚬ With the tiles having a one time only activation, it would be very easy to adjust the numbers. It's not worrying about how many cinder tiles scarlet twister will drag someone through after a blazing cyclone spear. Just a single detonation number to worry about, if it is a detonation we go with.
⚬ It's a more engaging combo tool with clear cause and effect. It's not just added numbers tacked on, but a clear series of one move, second move, slick detonation. It's a satisfying chunk of gameplay, especially compared to the current effects.
⚬ It has precedence, flavour, and potentially lore already established. Crystal blade in particular establishes this sort of effect, and whilst the tiles may well make more sense as prepared ground rather than crystals, the theming is very solid. Besides, imagine how rad doing this with a crystal blade would be?
⚬ Cool ground rumbling sound effects. Excel charge is my favourite noise in the game. This has potential to beat it.
⚬ Terrain effects make more sense for earth than any other element, by far.
⚬ Much more usability for Firebird than vines, making earth Firebird a much cleaner option than it currently is.

As for variables, I think there's a few important things to consider.
⚬ What skills place it, and what skills pop it?
Personally I initially thought that the skills that are currently just the flat damage (a la sidecut, sillcut, toiken) should place the tiles, whilst skills that change to earth damage (a la crystal rose, shinken, lift off) should detonate them. I lean towards that, but I've had some discussion on the suggestion that it should alternate (i.e. sidecut one sets them, sidecut 2 over them detonates them). I can't say for certain which would be ideal.
⚬ How many go boom?
Would striking a tile with a crystal rose just detonate that one, or all of the ones connected? An interesting question I'd like to hear thoughts on- the latter would certainly make for grander, flashier plays, but the former may be more tight and controlled. Given the awkward targetting of skills like toiken however, I feel like being able to detonate the lot at once is significantly more usable.
⚬ Damage?
Whilst only relevant if damage is what we go with, it's an important consideration. Thankfully, given that it should at best be able to be triggered on a target once per round, perhaps thrice per two rounds on a duelist or dual wield crit builds, I can only imagine the number will be easier to fine tune than the direct Impact DPS comparisons like the lingering burn of cinders or the burst damage of lightning crits. It would certainly need to be competitive with the latter though, which realistically slap real hard 2-3 times a turn right now.
⚬ Mages?
Right now, earth mages in particular get a weird bonus with elemental impacts that other mages don't. Namely, when enchanted with ACTUAL Galren instead of a badge, earth damage from skills applies magnetize, which then ends up slapped additionally onto the existing effects of other impacts. But only some. Kinda wacky, but I'd prefer that the other enchants got new effects added instead of this being taken away.
Instead, I still think mage should be innately able to interact with this mechanic. Isendo (and potentially Isenshi? Less comboable) should absolutely trigger the tiles in my opinion, and if the tiles get the hostile tile diminishing effect on them, Magaisendo can be changed from destroying tiles to simply laying these, innately setting them up for regular Isendo.
⚬ Pre-existing interesting impacts?
Dear god Dev, shinken is perhaps the gold standard for having cool elemental effects. If this change goes through, please keep seeking shinken and quaking crystal rose with their current effects, they're VERY neat. I'm not sure how weirder ones like roundtrip having it's pull would play in (I guess it'd just stay as that?), or if thousand stab with interact, but I imagine t-stab can probably stay not detonating tiles, given other impacts don't do anything extra.

I'm sure that there's a lot to consider still- it's currently 07:19 when I'm writing this line, and I'm soon for bed. Excuse anything I'm missing accordingly, and any rambling incoherence. That being said, I'm eager to hear people's thoughts, suggestions, concerns, questions, and really hoping this thread picks up traction. After all, earth impacts getting any change for the better is a win by me, even if it's not this.


tl;dr, I'd love to see earth's elemental impacts, particularly the boring ones, be reworked into an engaging combo system of detonating prepared ground tiles for earth damage.

[Dezark]

I very much enjoy this idea, earth has been on the lower end of things for a while and giving something of a effect similar to shifting earth would certainly be interesting; my main curiosity is how it can be used in most situations, having it detonate as it is leaves a few options in mind, perhaps having a effect with it as something to counteract certain actions by your enemy (side cut, still cut, toiken, charge, etc) could be set in so when someone "dashes" over the tiles, they detonate off that if not by your own skill like suggested.

This'll mainly come in play against players or specific monsters (i.e gorgon) but it'll allow for more tactical advantages in both sense, in term of PvE it could function to operate against things that "burrow" as well with their movement, so if a grindylow (for some reason) decides to move while burrowed they trigger this and take the earth damage they're most afraid of, or even for delvers, sand sharks and the murk delvers; having them try to dive into the ground only to suddenly find that ground isn't their ally? Just a way to allow for more activation chances of it if anything so that the tiles themselves can't be ignored by someone in that.

[Shujin]

One of the only reallly goot things are indeed Seeking Shinken (Its just cool), and probably magnetize being a very potent dodge denial tool.

I feel both Earth and wind could get a little extra, but have been a bit on the lower end of things.

What I would like to see as tiles are probably plant types such as vines or something so it also has an alternative synergy with Fire birb. Vine trap being the only other thing that really makes use of it other wise.


thats all I really have to add, generally approve though. +some damage is just boring.

[Snake]

I like this idea simply because earth always ends up being shat on for being tied to DEF, while being one of the coolest elements one can go for with its theme of durability and heaviness.