[Snake]

Erm... Ways to amplify it are pretty off-topic, excuse me. (That's why I never mentioned anything about RES, Bloody Palms, Hunting, Analyze Weakness or whatsoever.) Because the skill itself is doing [i][b]>too much

[Shujin]

if it´s 4M the problem is, that you kinda lose the ability to fight Cobra.
Chimera style:Crane hop-Axe kick-Exapnd ice.

[Lolzytripd]

should things be balanced against cobra at the expense of literally stomping out everything else, if a verglas cannot beat cobra with expanding ice, maybe they should look at other options againt cobra (rapid kick)

[Autumn]

Making it 4m is definitely not the right thing to do, it conflicts with Chimera style that way.

[Lolzytripd]

give it a max damage like board shaker

[Kameron8]

Or just remove the excess 50% tiles from the damage calculation, like it was once upon a time before a bug fix. Lower the FP so it isn't one of the most expensive attacks in the game, and the damage will be reduced by a whole lot.

[MegaBlues]

Sort of seems like there's a fair bit of "I took X damage" without posting resistances, armor, and the like. It seems kind of disingenuous to call for a nerf so quickly without really delving into the issue and comparing how much damage this skill does against, say, a regular autohit with comparable defenses.

What's probably going on is because magic has been nerfed into the ground (and im still mad that my topic on it hasnt gotten much attention), people aren't nabbing any resistance to it. So when something that deals Magical Damage comes along, they get shredded and complain.

Oh, and not to mention that you actually have to get ice tiles out in the first place, and have your opponent not just run away from them. If a skill that requires setup is so much weaker than a skill that doesn't, -that's- poor balance.

[Kameron8]

Honestly, this wouldn't be an issue if Verglas skills retained Cel/Ski/Will scaling from their animal trees. Building straight mage and having a strong expanding ice is a bigger trade off than being a tanky duelist with crystal rose and expanding ice dealing equally as much damage.

[Rendar]

As an FYI Kameron, that would do literally nothing to my damage.

STR - 50
WIL - 50
SKIL- 50

Let me just give you a rundown of how much power my weapon actually has.

((50*0.65)+(50*0.6)+29)*1.5) = 137.25+5 (Fist expertise) = 142.25

110% ICE ATK & 110% weapon attack.

48 (roughly) scaled SKI.

52.8 + 156.475 = 209.275

This is the power I hit with on my initial hit (after that it's *1.12 for hunted). Which means that it's, roughly, 234.388 (or 234)

The after-hits, which are *all* affected by magical defense on armor, mind you, do about 1/4th of that each. So, you each one doing 58 damage per hit. This means that on my initial expanding ice, I'm doing (if I don't drop winters bite and lower resistances)

(209*(1-0.Mag Resist))
(X*(1-ICE RESIST))
(Y-MAG ARMOR)

For the initial hit, then for each one after that I dooo...

((52*1.12)*(1-0.MAG RESIST))
(X*(1-ICE RESIST))
(Y-MAG ARMOR)

What exactly does this mean? It means that having actual fucking resistance stacks really well with having magic defense armor. What does winter bites change to this? It makes it so that instead of the 2nd step,it's just removed. Ontop of that, it makes the first step different. Making it into...

((209+5)*(1-0.mag resist))
(X-MAG Armor)

and then...

(((52+5)*1.12)*(1-0.MAG RESIST))
(X-MAG ARMOR)

The people that I actually fought and dealt damage to with this technique were using evasion, or simply had no resistance stat whatsoever. What they fail to realize is that evasion applies after everything else. It's Damage Reduction which applies to the total damage after I deal it. 15% off, or even 30% off of the damage after your RESISTANCE and even MAG DEF from your armor... Isn't going to cut it down.

Let's just plug in some math here for.. lets say the elf that I smacked that was healing 600 HP per turn since I know her RES and her MAG DEF.

(((209+5)*1.12))*(1-0.11))
(213-11)
-----------
202*.85=171.7
171.7*.9=154.53

and then...

(((52+5)*1.12)*(1-0.11))
(56-11)
--------
45*.85(Evasion)= 38.25
38.25*.9(Spell Thief)= 34.425 (roughly, its near what she was taking)

Now, there are issues strewn throughout all of the math because fuck if I know where a ton of this stuff actually applies anymore. As you can see though, if you just... raise.. resistance.. about 10%.. it makes your magic defense armor (against multi hit low power spells!) sooooo much better.

So in short. Stop building evasion and expecting it to work really well against multi-hit low power spells that are affected by magic defense armor each hit.


Like really. If I just took hunted out of the equation and we just ran my damage against someone with 30 resistance and 10 magic armor, this damage would go to shit soooo fast.

I know other builds (looking at you Rogue and ghost) do more damage than this and has less FP cost and doesn't give me a 25% Wind Weakness to do it.



Oh right. In regards to OP.

Expanding Ice:
4 Momentum, so it can't be spammed unless your enemy is Weak against it.
at Max Rank: 100% Scaled Ice ATK || 80% Scaled WPN ATK
Each extra tile will do 50% less damage, so the result might be like:

If it's 4 momentum, it can't be actually used twice in a round, even if your opponent is weak to it.

7+1 - 8

4+5 (Repeat action cost) = 9

This makes this skill actually usable once per round, and if they resist it, it's your only action in the round (unless you use it 2nd).

So, no. Don't make it 4M because that just fucks literally everything about the skill up and will drop it to one of the highest FP costing skills in the game with 0 actual use because of it's shitty momentum costs.

[Autumn]

IF you remove the after hits(x takes 30/30/30/30 ice damage), it'd cut down on pretty much 50% of it's damage, which is completely fair, that'd be the most optimal route to go imo, I agree with Kameron's suggestion.