[Kameron8]

The Two-Handed talent is leveraged wherever possible to stack % bonuses on top of % bonuses to unreasonable effect. One major component of all of the recent heartache associated with Duelists is their ability to use this talent alongside other multipliers like Bloody Palms, Crits, and (to a lesser extent) Absolute Death to extreme effect.

I recommend removing the component of Two-Hand: Full Swing that reads, "Doubled for weapons that have 20 Weight or more." This will leave the bonus at 10% SWA in all cases.

Losing a hand slot item is often not considered a detriment, with the level of power offered from Bloody Palms, Chimera Bands, and another %resist material. One can argue that Bloody Palms plays just as much of a role in this issue, and I wouldn't disagree. However, keeping the threads aligned on one topic at a time is more sensible -- so I'll leave that conversation for another time.

[Grandpa]

I agree with toning two-hand down, and honestly would say it shouldn't be a percentage increase at all - instead being a flat increase. But, I could see that being either the same situation of always choosing it, or just never choosing it at all. Either way, I agree that it should be toned down.

[Akame]

I'd rather see the weight requirement for 2h's double effect increase to 25 or 30, preferably 25, eliminating a lot of swords from reaching it without making sacrifices I think, or increasing a desire for someone to duel-wield, like making duelist's one-on-one require two swords, two spears, or a sword and spear.
But yuh, bloody palms are the biggest problem with 2h for sure.

[Grandpa]

I don't think just raising the weight requirement is going to do anything to solve the problem. It's incredibly easy for people to meet weight requirements for nearly any weapon using giant gene. Just changing duelist's passives isn't going to do anything to change the problem when it applies to autohits as well.

Bloody Palms are a problem of their own and should be discussed in their own thread. Two-Hand is plenty powerful on its own without Bloody Palms.

[Shujin]

I think bloody palms is mainly only an issue because it stacks with two hand so easily, I doubt it's needed to nerf both at the same time. As with many things it's always the stacking of damage modifiers that make it an unbearable headache *cough* looking at you lightning crit damage stacking*cough *.

I am in for nerfing two hand though for the mentioned reasoning. It's too good for how easy it fits into basically every build.

Even though 200swa longswords are fun. No, not really.

[Akame]

I don't think just raising the weight requirement is going to do anything to solve the problem. It's incredibly easy for people to meet weight requirements for nearly any weapon using giant gene. Just changing duelist's passives isn't going to do anything to change the problem when it applies to autohits as well.

Bloody Palms are a problem of their own and should be discussed in their own thread. Two-Hand is plenty powerful on its own without Bloody Palms.

They'd still have to make a sacrifice of losing 10 crit and the ability to gut all defense if they use giant gene because let's be honest, most sword duelists use vorpal godly. And even if they dropped let's say a razor blade to use the huge blade to meet the requirement, that's still a lot of crit and hit they'd lose. I say it's worth a try before removing it entirely!
Changing the duelist innate was just a suggestion on how to make dual-wielding duelists more appealing. I'm sure someone else can suggest something waay better. Also if you're referring to auto-hit massive SWA builds, the problems go beyond just 2h. They're usually done with Demon hunter, and can just be used with a 150 scaling tome, or any high SWA weapon easily. But the spirit of the post seems to be focused on basic-hit 2h duelists, so I'd rather focus on that.

I'm okay with any change, I just think leaving the double SWA for the heaviest weapons is better.

[Autumn]

Bloody palms are meant to fit into spellblade and magic damage archetypes, however they just work for everyone because getting a magical on hit (especially for swords, literally having an accessory that applies this to ANY sword) is easy as ever.

I've raised the topic on this before but I cannot actually find it anymore, but the jist of what that thread was about was that the 20% bonus from having over 20 weight was far too strong of a buff, and maybe should be reverted to the 'heavy' weapon archetype at worst, and outright removed at best, I'd like to see 2hand finally put into line finally as it does stand as defacto the best modifier, so much so that crit builds don't even include GUI due to the SWA modifier being higher than GUI itself, even extending into soft cap.

I grow increasingly worried however this will just make Fan Tomes the new reaver tool (as they achieve the same swa, but grant skill slots/FP/cannot be parried), but that is a topic for another thread I suppose.