[Kameron8]

This is the first thread of many to come that deals with rebalancing classes in the game. I have discussed these ideas with several people, and these threads are the things we all agreed on. To make discussion easier and less cluttered, I have separated the suggestions based on base class. To start off, here is Martial Artist.

1. Light Tomahawk's Urawaza bonus no longer has a chance to stun. It now has rank * 20% chance to guard break. Guard break skills now deal full damage when striking guarding opponents.

Justification:

In its current form, Light Tomahawk is an autohit that does as much damage as any of the Verglas or Monk skills, but has a 1 in 4 chance to practically win you the fight outright. This change keeps it relevant (although its damage already does so nicely) but does away with simply praying to RNGsus for a free turn skip.

2. Shukichi is now consumed after moving or using an attack that teleports you with its effect. To clarify, this removes the ability to Shukichi, move three quarters of the map, then cross the final one quarter of the map with a teleporting attack.

Justification:

Currently, the effective range of a Martial Artist is roughly the entire map. Unless you are on opposing diagonals (which would still leave you in range of heaven kick after moving with Shukichi), you are well within range to be struck. This keeps Shukichi useful for maxing out your movement or closing a small gap with an attack, but removes the ability to be scrubseeking palmahawk missiles.

3. Kip up now reduces the momentum cost of recovering from Knockdown for Light Armor by 0/1/2. Kip up no longer functions with Heavy Armor.

Justification:

Martial Artist is supposed to be a flexible, mobile class. It has fantastic sustain, high damage, and some of the best mobility in the game. However, it's currently being paired with full on tanks in massive suits of armor and 800 health to hop all over the map, cleanse any crowd control effects, get up from knockdown for free, and sustain health and FP forever. This change encourages people to take Martial Artist for more than just raw passive power, even as tanks.

[Rendar]

OH ARE WE DOING THIS NOW?

OKAY.

Well let's get to Martial Artist. At it's core, MA was a good class already pre-update. However whenever the update hit, it was admittedly broken. Even post-nerf, it's still one of the best classes in the game. Whether for dodgers, or otherwise. +20 Evade, +20 Hit, 10% DR, the ability to practically ignore the penalties of KD, +40 Evade against bows. Those are just from innates ALONE that make this class leagues and miles above certain other classes that are forced to take active buffs to even compete with it. It isn't until you get to it's other skills that it truly starts getting broken though.

Geldoren

'Fair' to a degree. Knockback+Fear on an attack that reduces DEF/RES by -10(-15 on a crit), whilst also performing a basic attack and applying anything you have going on with your basic attacks is powerful. Very much so. If it was usable at 1 range, it'd be somewhat manageable, but we'll get back to that. This is Case 1, now then let's move on.

Light Tomahawk

STR+22(44 if airborne)-Torso Weight. This one isn't so powerful on it's own, however the Urawaza effect is POWERFUL. It may not look like it, but 25% chance to stun is ridiculous. The class itself already has KD Potential, Fear Potential, Stun Potential, Dodge Potential, and tons of movement options. This is Case 2.

Heaven's Kick

Got a tremendous buff, now scaling off of an actual stat and being an actual worthwhile movement+damage skill for if they aren't in range. Which is already good, considering the class can already get bonus movement everywhere in it's build. It's also their Knockdown Potential, and can be dramatically tide-changing, considering it's a giant AoE as well (5 range, seriously? Do i just kick all of them for the same damage as I do the main target?). It also suffers the same issues as Sonic Shell with a mass-AoE Knockdown. Which should legitimately never be a thing. This is Case 3

Peddling Wheel

Literally the only one of these offensive combat skills that aren't horrendously broken. It's CEL+FIST+15+OTHER damage in Line 4. All enemies are thrown airborne too. Sure, it's a somewhat 'big' AoE, but it isn't that bad.

Meditate

Good lord is Meditate still stupid. The fact that a target can just meditate, gain 25% DR (on a class that already has 10%), in a game where DR can be stacked to high hell now... This is ridiculous. SKI*2 HP, 12 FP heal. Sure, it's halved if you get Knocked Back, or feared. However a lot of classes don't have options to apply either of those. Especially in 'sustain' fights, as I like to call them now. Where both targets are low on FP, the MA can simply meditate to gain 12 FP, a ton of HP, and gain DR for the round. Making it ridiculously hard to hurt them, or punish them for flat out sitting in the middle of combat. How do we fix it? Uh. Probably making it lower your evade by half, just like Body of Isesip. Also probably getting rid of the DR and adding a 'damage threshold' to break the meditation. I know that if I get shot in the face for 200+ damage, I probably won't be meditating. It'd work somewhat similar to Perfect Poise, but have a higher limit.

Shukuchi

Where do i even begin. First off, it's 6 FP and 1M for +8 move. This isn't inherently BAD. It's a ton better than Soldier's "Charge" skill without anything else added, which should probably be changed and make it only give the same amount as it. The worst part though, is applied in Case 1 and 2. Target isn't in range at the start of a fight, or across the entire map? Shukuchi > Move > Geldoren or Light Tomahawk. You effectively traverse and attack up to 23 squares away, which is pretty much the entirety of the map. There is no escaping a Martial Artist in any sense. The sheer fact that they can fly across the map in devestating combos (that if they can't hit you, they can attempt an auto-hit STUN). If they stunned you, it's pretty much GG for the fight and you won't even get to fight back unless you're built like a rock. It also makes Case 3 get even more range, making it possible to traverse about 30 squares in one turn and deal a good chunk of damage in a large AoE and also possibly KD. This skill, alone, basically turns Geldoren and Light Tomahawk into a better 'hanging'. Nerfing the +Move is a step in the right direction for a class that already has huge movement options.

Cleanse Body

Eh. Honestly, that's all I can say about it is 'eh'. 16 FP to remove Slow, Poison, Fear, Immobilize, and Blind... So long as your WIL is high enough to benefit from it. (Hint; Most MA's WIL isn't high enough to benefit from this ever).

Phoenix Talon

Pain. Making every 'kick' attack against airborne targets deal +30 extra damage, for up to 5 turns. Which gets a buff from being in an LB aura. Which uh. promotes... LB/MA??? It's okay, kind of painfully broken at certain times, but it's 'okay' so long as you don't stack auto-damage onto your kicks to make them deal a ton of unresistable damage, to the point that the target takes 100+ damage from it.

Crane hop

Dear god where do we start with this still. It's 3 FP, 1 M for a 4-range movement option. Which can tag into stupid combos ( like Raijenken > sharenzan. Or just CH > Wazabane > Sharenzan ). "A simple jump" costs more momentum than actually walking. Or instantly teleporting. It can also knock your opponent airborne, somehow, by jumping on their tile. So it leads to the classes already absurdly large amount of movement options, that now makes shoving/pushing an MA away to flee impossible. It's super hard to counter and makes escaping them even harder due to certain combos they can use.

It sadly, doesn't stop their. Both of MA's promotion classes benefit greatly from this. Monk building on to the tanky-ness that is MA, as well as giving options to further lower enemies Hit against you, KnockDown Options, Body of Isesip (in case you felt like cheesing one-hit wonders more), +CRIT for fists... Monk gets all of that.

Whilst Verglas gets the benefits of Phoenix Talon and Crane Hop being cheap ways to get your opponent airborne (and generally ignore the need to build STR to get you/opponent airborne.) Verglas also can (and generally does) cover up the weakness of being a main class MA by giving it the ability to use a shield and stack DR to high heaven.

A lot of the issues with MA could be solved if Shukuchi gets the nerf it deserves, whilst also having Meditate taking a hit to it's ability to be broken is also a good nerf. Those alone will make the base class be put back in line with actual base classes. Right now, MA alone can contend with Promo classes, and that really shouldn't be a thing.


Also.

I pretty much agree to the above changes, even if 1 is still too strong for a base-class skill. Guard Breaking 100% of the time isn't really good either, considering MA's promo classes both have very reliable (and cheap) methods of KD now. If we're going to apply armor effects, since no one that I know of really used heavy armor with MA, then apply it to Crane hop as well. Making its range smaller the heavier you are wearing. 4 > 2 > Unusable.

[Autumn]

Regarding the OP's points for now, I'll agree with all three of those, please make this happen.

[Soapy]

Everything in the OP sounds good to me.

[Ranylyn]

On Sderg's points, I'm in favor of making evasion bad while meditating. I mean, how do you dodge while focused so intently.

Also, agreement with the OP.

[Shujin]

I personally find meditate pretty situational as it is already... There are far worse healing tricks out there that can even be spammed more than this for 3M.

But yeah OP´s post seems to be nice.
If alone for no Kip-up with heavy armor, cause thats a dick move.

[Chaos]

#1: At first, I thought Light Tomahawk was a bit too cheap to be true. Then I actually put it to the test, and realized that the stun effect was quite inconsistent, and it often occurred when I didn't need it. If it's somehow able to consistently stun someone turn after turn, then provide Stun Immunity once the infliction expires.

#2: The only reason I would nerf this skill is to prevent people from running away after striking. If we're talking just people being able to chase down folks that just run from everything inconvenient, then let's keep Shukichi as it is.

#3: A completely necessary nerf.

[Autumn]

I will disagree with light tomahawk there Chaos, there is absolutely no reason a base class skill for 3m should have a chance of insta-winning you the match, this has happened to me a few times before even.

[Trexmaster]

At first, I thought Light Tomahawk was a bit too cheap to be true. Then I actually put it to the test, and realized that the stun effect was quite inconsistent, and it often occurred when I didn't need it. If it's somehow able to consistently stun someone turn after turn, then provide Stun Immunity once the infliction expires.

It's not because it can get chain-stuns that makes it broken, it's the fact it -can stun- that is, on top of dealing decent damage for every attempt you make to win the fight. If it -does- proc, you get a free turn on the enemy. Which is typically enough to cost them the match. Combo that into being able to fly across the map 23 (or 15 if #2 happens) spaces and throw down LT, it's pretty hard to avoid suffering from this. Keep in mind the only other methods of stun in the game are 1. Blowback Cannon (which requires you to hit) 2. Skullcaver (that requires you to hit and crit the target, and has a -lower- chance (albeit only by 1%) to proc.) and 3. Flipping someone onto/blowing a rock, which don't always spawn and rarely allow you to setup for.

[Kameron8]

Chaos » Thu Jan 21, 2016 2:22 am[/url]"]#1: At first, I thought Light Tomahawk was a bit too cheap to be true. Then I actually put it to the test, and realized that the stun effect was quite inconsistent, and it often occurred when I didn't need it. If it's somehow able to consistently stun someone turn after turn, then provide Stun Immunity once the infliction expires.

#2: The only reason I would nerf this skill is to prevent people from running away after striking. If we're talking just people being able to chase down folks that just run from everything inconvenient, then let's keep Shukichi as it is.

I (obviously) agree with the people above me. Stun is detrimental, and just because you may not have a build that crushes someone immediately after stunning them, doesn't mean this skill doesn't do that extremely often. (When it goes off, not because it stuns often)

As far as Shukichi, it's not really about preventing Martial Artists from pursuing someone who runs from inconveniences. They can already do that without ANY trouble. The reason this change has been suggested is because they can cross the entire map and hit you in one turn. Fighting as an archer, a mage, or anyone who just wants to buff is a huge struggle against someone who teleports on over and crits you for a 100+ damage Geldoren straight from round 0. No other class can even come close to doing that.