[Ryu-Kazuki]

It's a good comparison, although game weight mechanic isn't the same as real life, but when Psych started laughing at me a few minutes ago because Shotguns weigh less than tomes do, I figured there's a problem.

Chaos and I discussed it, and while I agree with him there should be a downside, tomes shouldn't be the heaviest type of weapons in the game overall. That's where the line gets drawn.

[Neus]

As Sderg pointed out, weight doesn't literally mean weight.

I just Legend Extended last night and ended up with 6 STR due to a stamp mod by about level 6, with a Kigal in my main hand (granted, sure this is a way to get away from Kigal maybe, but still), now I'm currently suffering -24 to HIT and EVADE because I'm 18/6 BW shortly after LE'ing.

I was aware of this being something that would probably happen. It's a way to 'softly' do level/stat requirements for items. You can use things that, in normal RPGs, would probably be way out of your reach, but you suffer some penalties for them.

With that said, I would enjoy getting some sort of bonus for having proficiency (Axe, Sword, Bow, Gun, etc) in a weapon then.

I could see this happening. All of the weapon mastery talents don't have a Rank 4 effect currently, and this could work for them.

Obviously if this is a mechanic that sticks, there will be adjustments made to existing things to take it into account, and potentially new things, such as traits.

[Neus]

- Rank 4 weapon masteries reduce the BW of weapons of the same type by Rank.
- Special Armament reduces Sub-Weapon's BW by 25% (50% at Rank 2).
- Heavy Bow Mastery reduces BW of bows 20 weight or more by Rank.
- Indomitable also reduces BW as well as damage taken by the same percentage.
- Packrat Rank 2 increases maximum BW by Rank.

Discuss.

[Lolzytripd]

sounds perfect dev

[Slydria]

I think those ideas would work nicely. In addition, I suggest adding a Minimum BW of 10 regardless of STR (like how you have a minimum 10 Encumbrance.)

This is mostly for low level/low strength players so they can use starting equipment without incuring too much of a penalty.

[Ranylyn]

I second Sly's idea something hardcore; as it stands, most races/classes can't even use starting weapons/armor without a penalty.

That said, those tweaks sound like a very fair idea, Dev, with the sole exception of BKs only getting a class bonus from Indomitable. It's only 12%. So... 40 str would become... what, 45-46? It's not much. Most BKs still won't be able to use a decent weapon (Read: Non-twinked. Yes, a 1 star rebellious weapon most likely weighs less than a 5 or so star weapon, but the odds of finding one for yourself, early on?) if they use heavy armor. Yes, BKs don't need a freakishly hefty subweapon, but their armor is arguably more important, as they're all about closing in and tanking.

Especially when you consider the excel weapons and Black Knights both came from Chaturanga... it doesn't make sense that a BK wouldn't be able to handle that kind of weaponry in addition to their armor until near the level cap, if at all.


Suggestion: Add a further BW bonus to Board Shaker since it scales with armor weight. Perhaps Rank*2 to actually allow a Bodyguard (Aka the only way Board Shaker can actually do noteworthy damage) to be usable without completely neutering your hit rate.

[Neus]

What Indomitable affects is your BW, not your maximum BW. So it would be -12% total, or -36% total if you've invoked the Black Wind this turn. Also I'm not going to make any changes with the intention of making Body Guard an appealing option. That needed some additional drawback and if that comes in the form of BW penalties then so be it.

[Grandpa]

Honestly, I like the BW system and would like to see it permanently added. Those effects work very nicely as well and even promote the use of certain skills/talents more. I only hope we can get them sooner than next 'official' update.

[Ryu-Kazuki]

Neus » Fri Nov 28, 2014 2:29 am[/url]"]- Rank 4 weapon masteries reduce the BW of weapons of the same type by Rank.
- Special Armament reduces Sub-Weapon's BW by 25% (50% at Rank 2).
- Heavy Bow Mastery reduces BW of bows 20 weight or more by Rank.
- Indomitable also reduces BW as well as damage taken by the same percentage.
- Packrat Rank 2 increases maximum BW by Rank.

Discuss.

My two problems.

Tomes don't have a mastery, unless we add an extra rank to fluency, or make another talent.

5 ranks of packrat (for an assumed total of -5 BW) isn't enough to do much, and doesn't help in the favor of why tomes are so "heavy" (that's not a mocking motion, that's a; I don't know what else to call it without making it seem like actual real life weight thing).

Most weapons don't go anywhere near 20 in weight, or even 15 sometimes. Wo-daos are 6 base, and if you min-max your weapon qualities / materials (which is very possible), you can still stay under BW with no penalties, especially as a class that gets STR growths. Like I also mentioned earlier, a Spelledge with more power than Kigal at full potential is still less weight than the tome itself. That's pretty bad.

I'm pointing this out because even if not for mage's sake, no one who isn't a mage is going to use tomes in their right mind to attack with or wield in combat. Even tacticians would think it's not worth it considering how much it would be to them as a hindrance to their BW, and considering their damage is based off WIL, they wouldn't be used for attacking because everyone else would be relying on STR growths. But it's pretty ridiculous that they're the heaviest objects in the game in combat weight, and people who actually get strength can easily wield their weapons because they weigh so much less.

I'd sacrifice cutting tomes down to 1/2 Power = Spell Power increase for their weight to be reduced. Otherwise, people are going to stop using them, and nobody outside of mages would do so.

[Lolzytripd]

perhaps just reduce tome weight then....

except kigal replica
A) not the real kigal
b) its cloned dark magic