[Lolzytripd]

Evasion needs retooled Completely, from the ground up

Evasion exists a way to mitigate unavoidable damage.

therefore we Remove it from rogues

Everyone has default normal evasion now

Change evasion to a simple scaled Cel% to reduce autohit damage by 50%

Change it so that rogues, when successfully do so take No damage (and other sources of evasion as of now)


this is the system used in dnd for the last 15 years, succesfully, without issue, for undodgable magic and autohits.

even the part about rogues.

[Grandpa]

While that's an interesting idea for Cel, D&D is an entirely different beast than SL2. What works there doesn't necessarily work here.

I think Evasion is fine as is.

[Lolzytripd]

I disagree because thanks to current weapon scalings (a tome for every stat, mythstlayer, ect) , auto hits not requiring a hit check, and evasion being limited to only a couple of classes has lead to Tanky builds that dump skill (the hit stat) Luck (the crit stat) and guile (the crit damage stat) becoming looming walls of survivability that low and behold are competitive at dealing damage (moreso with how prevalent crit evade can be).

[Akame]

If there was going to be a change to Evasion, then I agree it should be made available to everyone of all classes. I don't agree with a 50% reduction since that would be stacked along with Phys. defense and other flat reductions which would be overbearing.

I'd rather have it be a trait, and at the end of the evasion trait 'tree';
Agile feet > After image > Evasion (15% reduction at a hit-check chance)

Rogue's Evasion skill would increase the flat percent reduction by like 3% per rank (An extra 15% reduction total, half if not main class) and Boxer's Swaying skill would increase the flat percent reduction by like 7% per rank (An extra 35% total). The In-Fighter Gi would probably need a new effect, though.

Rogue keeps their 30%.
Swaying stays at 50%.
Everyone gets 15%.


*Edited to change numbers.

[Rendar]

Evasion isn't really bad though guys.

The issue is that if you build 40 cel/40 luck, you will be hit 100% of the time. If you build more, you're lacking in other areas where a person with 40 ski/luc can always hit, and likely crit your ass because crit vs crit evade and hit vs evade is still fucking broken out the ass.

If you want to complain about why Evasion is bad, complain about all of the restrictions upon it. In the past, it was necessary because of how much it did, and how wonky evade was and you could just avoid all damage. Now? Now it's better to build straight def/res, because def/res won't be taken from you if you're knocked down/stunned/guarding/etc/etc/etc.

[Lolzytripd]

Someone going for Crit/hit cant afford good defenses, because going crit hit costs alot of different stats

Someone going autohit can afford Great defenses and outdamage someone going crithit

[Rendar]

And watch as, usually, evasion would work in that regard except for the fact that Knockdown destroys evade, you can't guard and evade... you can't evoke and evade... and tons of other restrictions placed arbitrarily on Evasion from way back.

I hit evasion 24/7 on Uilosson. The reason? I don't have friggin LUC which is a huge part of to-hit.

[Exxy]

I'm fairly certain this has been brought up before and it was rejected by a majority (and Dev??? Not 100% sure--).

No significant factors that affect Evasion have been drastically changed since then so I don't see much of a reason to flip it upside down and rewrite how it works in the balance (maybe after Dodge factors and likelihood change, but that's still an if-they-do -- in which case would probably be the opposite of what this thread is trying to accomplish; as in more of a nerf to pre-exisiting instances of it rather than have it become more accessible/standard-issue. . . but that's just a fair bit of theory and speculation).

[Snake]

I like this thread's idea, well, while some Rogues could sure abuse this neatly, it would be fair on their side, Evasion just needs to 'not' work against magic and bam, balance. (Mostly because this is Wraithguard's role)

A trait, as we tried to suggest before, would be what gives the player an access for Lesser Evasion (or a new name, like Sidestep or Dodge Roll, These could even use some SKI in the math, to define if you will or not fumble and end up knocked down by yourself after a bad luck dodge.), 10% damage reduction, based on armor type [unarm - 10%, light - 5%, heavy - 0%], and with Evasion check. Then CEL would be the nail in the coffin, increasing the reduction as you invest into it, 5% more damage reduction per 10 scaled CEL.
(That, as in, addition. 10% + 5% per 10 scaled CEL, this will also work to any other methods of Evasion. And maybe Cobra receiving one extra dodge per 35 scaled CEL?)

That would give CEL some extra use and thought before the investment. And creating squishy, high-damaging assassins would be viable once again in this cursed tank meta where you must cry tears of blood to atleast damage properly on a crit, pray for them to not be using Armor of Eyes, and pray once again for them to not have boneheart. After calling all the holy faith from the lord, hope the enemy is not a douche to hide their back against the corner of the map. If assassins end up 'tanky' then? It's worth, they are using their speed to survive, not their body. It does still make sense, damn it. It's just different than a bodybuilder. Evasion is made to punish those who think they can simply forget SKI and LUC and go straight for STR/WIL/DEF because it's one, easier to build and get high weapon damage, and two, immortal and insta-win.

Also, don't forget that armor types kind of ruin most of the Evasions, and the addition of it being subclass that further butchers it. Evasion got hit TOO hard, to the point if you use a Light Armor and Evasion subclass, it will only reduce what, 7,5%? On someone who will probably have 10 DEF? Neat. Where are your gods now vs Boxer?

Autohits are bullshit against people who built properly to dodge. And this buff is just reasonable. If they can dodge, they should be able to avoid some heavy damage as well. Not like you can perfectly balance SKI, CEL, VIT DEF and LUC to 'try' and abuse this, you'll lack damage and just be resilient, which could be another playstyle, the surviving type, it gets boring to see that everyone are pro bodybuilders with 999 HP 999 STR 999 DEF while using chars that can't lift a spoon to eat ice cream, because if they don't do this, they will be stomped due to not having another choice.

Aren't we already tired of the tank meta yet?

[Lolzytripd]

Another option would be cutting the scalings of defensive scaling weapons.