[Autumn]

Most of us had our fun with Boxer for a while now, but I think one thing does need to be dealt with is how much damage they deal, I get that they have hefty FP costs but honestly FP costs don't matter to some builds, so I think some hits to their damage is needed.

I think most of the boxer skills should be normalized to soldier-level damage scalings at the respective skill's max rank, considering that they're all autohits that scale from already extremely high scaling weapons (Fist weapons have better scaling than any other melee weapon in the game.)

It might also make sense to bump the damage bonus to boxer skills you get from Schwarz Sturm to 15%, from 10%, to still give Boxer the potential to deal a lot of damage, but not immediately murder you for not building 50 DEF on any character. (Which..is not good for anyone)

Proof, a boxer combo actually straight up just one-combo'd my squishy character at around 3-4 sturm generated, the essence of counterplay was not even apparent.

Anyway, here's what I think the boxer skill scalings should be, Verglas skills were used as my basis for what they should be since they are both considered combo autohit classes.

Regenschauer, Asura Fist, Grandupper, Felsmange should stay the same, simply because the latter of the two are finishers and should stay strong.

Korkenzier - 128% at max rank, considering it's also mobility.

Felhook - 120% at max rank, it is the most spammed skill for boxer considering it has a 14FP cost at rank 5.

Sturm Shreik - 120% at max rank, same as felhook but it costs 1 less momentum and can even silence.

Orkam Drehen - 90% at max rank, it's got a huge map wide AoE radius at higher sturm levels, and pulls people in towards them a fuck ton to assure this skill lands on just about anyone, building sturm is not hard at all so this skill really needs to be hit hard at the least.

If anyone has problems with the scalings I've suggested then it's free for debate, but honestly I don't think the class needs to be one shotting people left and right with no chance to react.

[Soapy]

+1

[Ranylyn]

Lowering the damage in exchange for a marginally higher SS bonus makes sense; the reason I was opposed to lowering the damage before was because they're dependant on SS and any action, even movement, that isn't a boxer skill does break it.

Those numbers seem like a fair change with the change from 10% to 15%.

[Rendar]

I'd say Orkham Drehen could stand to have 75% scaling, because, as you said, fists have the highest scaling in the game.

That skill is already the combination of Forced Move with dealing actual damage, it shouldn't really be doing a ton of damage.

[Snake]

I agree with the purposed changes.

Those scalings to tone down the basic damage (so they have a 'weakness', which is the early game), more emphasis on Schwarz Sturm-based damage and their insane FP consumption may blend in well with the class's theme.

Also, no need for 75% on Orkam Drehen, we 'still' need that for PvE, if you don't mind.

[Shujin]

Well I think bumping up the 80% damage to 120% damage for having build up the, as you already said, very easy schwarzsturm for nerfing the other damage in their main "attacks" slightly is acutally buffing their damage up instead of nerfing.

Felhook as example is currently 140+80 (at max SS)=220(I think it adds up like this instead of a flat percent multiplier of the existsing damage)
your version 120+120= 240 So yeah...Where is the nerf? Only because they start slighty less? Their beginning phase isn´t really a problem and it also gets evend out after the frist 3-4 actions. I doubt that makes a differnce in the wished direction.

Then I would rather see to either half the bonus you get from Schwarz sturm down to 5 or have some mechanic that does not allow them to sit at 8 SS for like forever. Thats pretty much why they can keep dishing out high damage with no counter play (also because of Orkan drehens far to high range+pull, )

Or maybe just make the bonus damage apply to the finishers fully and half for the normals? Cause I kinda like the concept of finishing moves and wouldn´t want them to lose the impact. The main problems are that the normal skills dish out higher damage than prenerf Wreckrenzan per hit with no more set up than having to build up your SS.(which once again, is super easy. All you need to do is build some will for the FP which gets also rewarded with more DR)

No other class can dream to get such a high scaling, without stacking a bunch of powerups like marked for death, Staff of eyes and Combination fighter (which Boxers also kinda very easily get, so yeah. So mind you, your suggestion does even buff this damage so the end game of the Boxer is even stronger than now.)


I don´t think you are really nerfing it here much to be honest, with exception of Orkan drehen.
200+ damage per hit on Tanks, which is also partly AoE thanks to nachbeben, plus a map wide range is...Not okay. Even for those FP costs which aren´t even that high when compared to Verglas, which is also combo class that does pretty much everything worse than boxer.



So yeah, +1 for a nerf of damage, but I assume the suggested nerf isn´t really going to acheive it.

[Kameron8]

I agree that some number tweaks are in order, but I would also like to see these additions:

1. Sturm Shreik having a lower scaling than Felhook, as well as a reduction in FP cost.
2. Asura Fist only generating 1 Sturm level, and only when it hits an enemy.
3. Korkenzeiher having a readjustable line for targetting.
4. Some changes to Geist Schritt.
5. Orkam Drehen only generating Sturm if it hits an enemy.

I really want the Boxer identity to be compounding power. Lower base damages but a higher %increase from Schwarz Sturm is, in my opinion, ideal. However, the ramp speed boxers currently have with Geist Schritt and Asura Fist/Regenschauer is way too high, which plays a big role into why people are getting their skulls caved in by rebelling brawler's gloves. Sturm Shreik has a huge FP cost, but is essentially a better version of Felhook since flatfoot only aids boxers in the case of Cobra/Evasion. Felhook should be the highest scaling out of the boxer skills bar finishers, since it takes 4m to throw out. Orkam Drehen needs the tuning you mention, but some of that power needs to be given to Korkenzeiher so it can actually be used to pursue without turning into a geometry problem. All of the qualms I have with Geist Schritt are easy enough to find in the linked forum post.

Even if none of these things I've listed get implemented, a numbers change is still very much necessary and welcome.

[Neus]

Didn't Asura Fist already get changed?

[Autumn]

I don't think a change to Asura Fist is necessary because it can hit a resist, but if it comes down to generating sturm, Geist Schritt has anyone beat, a boxer usually has 4+ sturm before reaching you in a fight, I think rather Geist Schritt's biggest change could be that it doesn't generate sturm until you block an ability, in where that if it blocks something it can generate 2 sturm or even just 1, otherwise I agree with most of what is in Kameron's post as well.

[Kameron8]

Didn't Asura Fist already get changed?

It was changed to generate 1, then generate another Schwarz Sturm level if it hit someone. I'm suggesting it does not generate 1 for only being cast, and only generates 1 on a hit.

I don't think a change to Asura Fist is necessary because it can hit a resist

True, but it's also the only skill in Boxer's toolkit that targets Resistance instead of Defense, which is important enough to warrant it not being the defacto Sturm generator. It even has range. Compared to Regenschauer, there is no comparison. Unless you're hitting a 60 San Vampire, or something.