[Haunted Evil Pajamas]

I am writing this without consent of other peoples ideas for the following topic, if someone else suggested one of my ideas first, then I support it, this is merely a collection of my ideas I came up with myself, I'll certainly read other threads later.

There are many complaints about Boxer being OP and all of that, and honestly I agree, however I feel like nerfing damage alone or changing one large thing wont help, so here are my suggestions, keep in mind if ALL of my ideas are put in, Boxer will most likely be pretty weak, I'm simply giving options since I do have some experience in game design and balance and wish to help, I'm not asking for praise, just acknowledgement that this has been viewed.

1. Geist Schritt, might as well get this one out of the way first, as it's the #1 most unique ability in Boxers arsenal, along with Schwarz Sturm. People say to make it evasion based perhaps, however the main focus of it is to predict your opponent, and I wish to keep it that way, however, I feel like it gives too much of a reward for succeeding in the predict and not enough punishment for failing. When boxer was first released, if you took a direct attack that was not an attack you predicted with Geist Schritt, you lost the buff and you could get hit with anything without being canceled, I feel like this was a good way to punish those who made an incorrect choice with the wrong dash skill, however it was removed, if I'm crazy and it was never a thing in the first place, then I encourage that it be a mechanic. Another thing is the reward for succeeding is too high in my point of view, it negates an attack entirely, moves you into close combat range, gives you more of your Schwarz Sturm, AND refunds your momentum, I think removing the momentum refund is a fair change, as it already rewards you with positioning, more damage/skill options, and you negated a potentially powerful attack. If only one thing was to be changed I hope it is this.

2. Asura Fist....it does too much damage, and it gives you 2 of your Schwarz Sturm if you hit, 1 if you miss, it also has range, I understand it is dark damage and many people resist darkness, but even with 30% resist from voidwalkers, most boxers will still do ridiculous amounts of damage with it, the only major weakness it has is that it is a spell, and thus it can be silenced or stolen, while that is nice, but that's a pretty situational defense than not many character are able to do.

3. Damage in general, Boxer has incredibly high scaling on most of its attacks, while they have high FP cost, this is countered by a subclass that has ways to recover FP, or perhaps an alchemist with blue potions (you know you can recover 90 FP a turn with the talent and 2 blue potions, it's pretty nice). I feel like it should work like this, Boxers focus on making the right choices, being in the clinch with your opponent, and dealing high damage, this is also a factor thanks to the martial artists "Combination Strike" skill and the main class boxer skill "On the Ropes." My suggestion is to nerf the general scaling of all of Boxer's skills (including the ones that have already been nerfed, but not as much), however increase the damage you gain from raising your Schwarz Sturm, this will encourage boxers to keep their combo going instead of just shooting out Asura fists for maximum DPS essentially until Grandupper is ready for the killing blow.

4. Nachbeben, honestly I don't know why this skill exists, Boxer has 3 AoE skills and they are pretty good, especially Orkam Drehen, and Nachbeben activates from those AoE skills, so you can AoE while you AoE, I understand the damage got nerfed, but it seems like an unnecessary skill that would belong in something like a spellsword class...

5. Orkam Drehen, It has too much range at higher combo levels and pulls more than forced move...and is an AoE damaging skill...I honestly dont think I need to say any more, I recommend nerfing at least one of those traits.

6. Weir Konnen, this is another skill where I don't fully understand why it exists in Boxer, I don't hate the skill, and it encourages Boxers to put points in WIL to give them FP to fuel their high cost skills, but I feel like it could've done something else other than boost your physical reduction, most Boxers build their WIL to be about 40, so they gain a 10% physical reduction, this is alright for me, if Martial artist didnt have a main class skill that gave 10% reduction if you're unarmored, and with armor mutation a thing, the options are plenty for Boxers to be very high damage tanks.

7. Scharf, this is actually a buff I'm requesting, Scarf is a useless skill, it buffs your hit and critical depending on your Schwarz Sturm, however you lose your Schwarz Sturm when you throw a basic attack, so you work for a couple rounds to gain the ability to throw one moderately boosted basic attack when that Schwarz Sturm will easily be used on Grandupper or something else, I personally think if it was designed like that, it should boost damage as well, this could encourage Boxers to have a fancy killing blow strategy to perhaps throw other boxers off guard or something of the like.

Thank you so much for reading this, if you have complaints, keep in mind its just my ideas, you are free to complain to me, but it wont matter in the long run most likely unless you wish to have you're own input, or yell at me for not reading your post that has a similar idea.

Have a nice day!~

[LatentSparrow]

+1

[Snake]

1- I don't know why remove the refund from the Green Geist Schritt, the Blue one's refund could be removed because a basic hit often nukes better than an autohit or magic, so it makes the Boxer become split between 'Do I go for major battle-disturbing defensive or a full-power counterattack combo?', and the Blue one is already uber battle-disturbing due to the range of things it affects. (Even non-damage skills that try to debuff the opponent, like Absolute Death.)

2- Yes. Boxer is supposed to be a high Physical Damage dealer and period, so having Asura Fist doing Magic Damage makes it a bit 'eh' in my opinion. Such 'Physical Damage mixed with Magic Damage' gimmick would fit better on Monk and Verglas. As one uses spiritual power and their bodies to their maximum and the other uses infused Ice and many kick techniques. Yadda yadda.
Asura Fist's damage type should be changed to Physical and I can guarantee it would solve a lot of this skill's problems due to how easy it is to stack Physical Damage reduction. (Which were Matador's previous problems.) And maybe add a condition to make it reward 2 points of Schwarz Sturm, such as 'if you hit the opponent on the front'.

3- Damage's not a big-ass issue if you have prepared yourself to fight a Boxer by stacking Phys Damage Reduction, atleast after the nerf. Asura Fist is the big offender here in my opinion, thanks to it, they can build Schwarz Sturm too fast and that's not cool.

4- Nachbeben is 'okay' for now, I wonder if Wind Resist makes it eat the Boxer's momentum, but that would be more fine if it was like, 10 magic damage + (2 per rank) + 50% Wind Elem. Attack (+10% per rank), to encourage the Boxer to not just choose rank 1 Nachbeben and do a lot of 'AoE re-damage' for 1 skill point.

5- Nah. It's fine. But if it gets too annoying, we can always make it so Spiked Threads nullify the pull's effect.

6- Magic Gunner can abuse such thing better, so no biggie. (WIL increases their overall damage, plus gives them physical damage reduction.)

7- YES. Make it so that for the duration, using Martial Artist skills will make you lose only 1 Schwarz Sturm (2 for non-offensive skills) instead of a complete reset. If this goes through, I think Boxer could use a big ass nerf to all of their skills. And another playstyle of Boxer could be put on the road here! THIS WOULD BE GREEEEIGHT!!

[Haunted Evil Pajamas]

Thank you for the opinion Snake, I do have some of my own opinions in regards to your ideas.

1- I suggested removing the refund because successfully defending an attack with both the major Geist Schritt skills rewards you enough, stopping an attack at positioning yourself closer to the opponent is already amazing for a boxer, let alone the extra Schwarz Sturm. Combined with my minor nerf suggestion (losing the Geist Schritt if you got hit by a direct attack that you didn't predict) would create a better mind game for the opponent so they stand a chance against the walls of fists.

2- Look at Asura Fists scaling, magic damage or not, that thing is freaking powerful and has range.

3- My suggestion is to help emphasize Boxer's gimmick, building combo for rewards rather than just having the high damage at all times.

4- I don't really have much of a problem with Nachbeben, I'm just curious as to why Boxer has it, it seems like a very unfitting skill.

5- If that's the case, then forced move needs a buff...

6- Magical Comet, a lot of boxers use them, Will does increase Magic Gunner damage, but its by a very small amount in the long run, I actually think magic gunner needs a bit of a buff at this point due to how there are so many abilities and equipment that can shut it down, but I want to do more research and planning.

7- I didn't think of this before, I just thought of it, why not while Scharfe is active, basic attacks do not lower your Schwarz Sturm? This would also make Boxer vs Boxer more entertaining as now they have viable basic attacks to keep the other boxer guessing?

[Snake]

1- I don't know, really. Having one of the two not doing something special might help confusing the foe from your intentions. But that only if 7-'s suggestion goes through, a way to reduce Schwarz.

2- Ehhh... Yeah, atleast for people who build high RES. And Asura's Fist being Physical Damage would headbutt the damage down by a lot, because of what I said.

3- Yeah, noticed it after reading, but got lazy to edit. More Sturm damage for lower scalings is sure always welcome, and 7-'s suggestion might help here too to balance.

4- Well, magical shockwaves made from the impact. But I do agree this concept or atleast the Orkam Drehen + Nachbeben would look cooler in some Spellblade Wind-user promotion class.

5- .u.

6- Mhm, it's the only way to actually benefit from the WIL part.

7- I think so, added to the MA Offensive Skills (-1 SS) and Support Skills (-2 SS). Could be nice if this was turned into a Finisher. Only usable at 8 Schwarz Sturm. Something like 'the final hour', where the Boxer uses all of his gathered 'tempo' and 'swingo' to make a surprising throwdown towards zero with different techniques.

[Exxy]

There are many complaints about Boxer being OP and all of that, and honestly I agree, however I feel like nerfing damage alone or changing one large thing wont help. . .

+1, although still bringing them in-line closer to the status quo wouldn't be horrible.

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1 (Geist Schritt): My main complaint was, and still is, that the 'prediction' you make on which move your opponent to use is a bit lazed over in discussion. For starters, you're typically forced into one method of attack to excel at (sometimes with a back-up in-case-of-emergency, depending on how you're set up - I suppose there's room for argument this part isn't an issue if we're really going back to the "Item fixes borkness" ordeal with Drehen being fine due to Spiked Treads). My main quarrel with this is when you're faced against Classes with -very- limited avenues for attack (think Mages, who mostly fall into auto-hits if I recall correctly).

2. Most contemporary methods of silence call for being in close proximity, which isn't a very thought-out counter due to that being exactly what a Boxer would want (AKA, if you try cutting off the head known as Asura Strike you will be struck by the rest of the Hydra).

3. I would rather give incentive to using their SS up instead of keeping it capped off for max DPS which is something that happens a lot already IIRC (I honestly feel like the scaling outweighs the limited use of Finishers - preferably with the other skills that are not Finishers being brought down a scmidge to give more reason to reset your SS). This one is probably the biggest issue that should be solved in this thread, if I had to pick any.

5. Orkam Drehen is still an issue, I could care less how others that will (most likely) post on this thread want to defend it. It should either have amazing pull (which is more of a reward with how the rest of Boxer functions) or good damage, not both.

6. Weir Konnen is probably one of the smaller fries on the list since we've cleared up it stacking with the MG Skill that it's a carbon-copy of.

7. From what I've read in your mentioning of Scharfe, which is about the only mentioning I've heard of it (because a high damage auto-hit Class has no use for something like this, as you hit upon already), it seems about as out-of-place as in-tree synergy for Martial Artist Promotions.