[Kameron8]

Holy enchants do a very good job of keeping Vampires and Spirit Users on their toes, but an odd situation as arisen where the two in question only have to worry about basic attack (crit) builds. Additionally, many people permanently utilize holy weaponry just on the off chance they're facing someone susceptible to it. Both of these seem like an issue to me -- Holy weapons should be devastating to the people weak to it, but the entire population shouldn't be constantly kitted out to survive the next Resident Evil movie.

I suggest that, if the target is Undead/Possessed, casting implements like tomes boost the damage of spells used through them by the Holy modifier, and skills that use the weapon in the damage formula do the same. Furthermore, the damage of Holy weapons -- as well as the skills/spells that use them -- should be reduced to 70% of normal against non-susceptible foes.

This encourages possessed and Vampires alike to keep their business to themselves -- which very few people try to do, annoyingly -- and allows magically inclined individuals the opportunity to punish those that don't. This also means people who focus on skills, and not basic attacks, can do the same. Given that Holy weapons will more often than not slow people down in this scenario, it also trims down on the "sure, just put holy on it in case I accidentally hit a Vampire" mentality.

The last benefit to this is less significant, but still worth mentioning. With the ability to deal extra damage with spells and skills, many people would have a much easier time fighting Undead in the Crypts and Castles. And while I'm sure several people are unnerved at the thought of Charged Mind spells getting multiplied by Holy, consider that it is no different than putting the enchant on an Excel weapon, or using it with Ether Invitation.

[Sawrock]

Please, no. I don't want my normal weapons to become switch-on-metagame weapons. (Not that I would metagame, but still.)

[Kameron8]

I don't want my normal weapons to become switch-on-metagame weapons

(Not that I would metagame, but still.)

Then I'm not sure what the issue is. Having the opportunity to metagame enchant choices -- which already happens -- seems like a poor way to balance things. I'd think having your 'normal weapons' all being holy is about the situation I mentioned at the beginning of the post. It seems silly, to me at least, that EVERYONE wields zombie slaying weapons for no good reason except 'this might just automatically win me the fight sometimes'.

[Sawrock]

The issue is the damage debuff on anything that isn't holy-weak.

Plus, Overload would absolutely wreck vampires more so than it already does.

[Autumn]

Running around on my vampire I can confirm that almost everyone runs Holy weapons if they're basic attack based, it's either holy or rebelling, it'd be nice to not have to see holy weapons on literally everyone just in case they find someone holy weak and get a huge damage boost, +1

[Kameron8]

The issue is the damage debuff on anything that isn't holy-weak.

Well, not much I can offer here, since the debuff on anything that isn't holy weak is less an issue and more an obvious benefit in my eyes.

[Ranylyn]

EDIT 1: I realize I was rude in my post. Editing it to be less dickish.

EDIT 2: Somehow my edit became a new post. Whoops. Disregard this.

[Ranylyn]

Against something not weak to Holy, Holy is already at a disadvantage since it's an enchant slot that can't be used for something else. I really don't see any reason to give it a further penalty than that. To make it do only 70% of damage - and not just weapon damage, but any spell damage - against literally anything that does not count as Undead/Possessed is quite honestly kind of ridiculous.

I just can't get behind this thread. If enough people support this, I'll say MAYBE 90%. But 70%? No. Absolutely not.

[Kameron8]

Against something not weak to Holy, Holy is already at a disadvantage since it's an enchant slot that can't be used for something else. I really don't see any reason to give it a further penalty than that. To make it do only 70% of damage - and not just weapon damage, but any spell damage - against literally anything that does not count as Undead/Possessed is quite honestly kind of ridiculous.

I just can't get behind this thread. If enough people support this, I'll say MAYBE 90%. But 70%? No. Absolutely not.

Having no enchant is a marginal disadvantage, with a worst-case-scenario of not having adequate hit rate without borneblood. Having Holy in effect is an enormous advantage, and is potent enough to warrant many, many people running it constantly. It's better to possibly gain the benefit of Holy and often gain no benefit, than to run several other enchants.

All this change does is remove that aspect of Holy, and encourage using it situationally. If you're arguing that everyone mass-using Holy weaponry is not an issue, that's fine, I just disagree. However, I read your pre-edited post, and if you simply think I got pissed off because someone beat my face in with Holy weapons, there's very little reason for me to respond. None of my characters have ever been hit harder with a Holy weapon, because only one is possessed.

All I'm suggesting is allowing more than one archetype to access Holy, and to emphasize knowledge of the weakness over playing minesweeper 24/7.

[MegaBlues]

Vampires are uniquely strong as a race, so it's fair that if people find out that you are one, you pay the price (That can be highly reduced with Brighter Darkness, as well as the fact that nearly everyone counts as Posessed anyway due to how good white spirits are).

I feel that Holy should, in fact, be plain buffed to work for Skills and Spells as well. There isn't any need for a penalty, since the penalty for using Holy is the opportunity cost of having your Enchant slot being taken up if its not effective against what you're fighting.