[Autumn]

This has been an issue for a little while now, it's just not as a wide known one, mutating a turtle shell makes it unarmored, and when it's unarmored it stacks with Ogata Waraji and Weathered Body.

To put it into perspective":
Fully upgraded Turtle shell: 10% physical resistance from the front and sides, 20% from the back. (as well as a hefty armor value, hitting 23 with carapace+solid)
Ogata Waraji: 10% Damage Resistance when paired with Unarmored
Weathered body: 10% Damage Resistance when Unarmored and wielding a fist or non-shield in your off-hand.

And then to top it off, all of these tools are available to any martial artist:
Weir Konnen: anywhere from 5-15% Flat Physical DEF
Golden Glow: 10% Physical Magical DR
Ice Point Guard: 10 DEF/RES

It's fine if people want to be physically resistant to all hell and back but what's not fine is that Kip-up negates the penalty of this armor by a fairly large margin for most martial artists, thusly it's become a staple for them to acquire in order to snuff out most physical damage builds with little issue.

My only suggested nerf for this armor in specific is that it disables kip-up, that's all, this will prevent martial artists from being the tankiest class in the game and also getting out of Knockdown which is supposed to be the downside of the armor itself.

[Lolzytripd]

....they aren't the tankies by a large margin even right now


the true tank of tanks its Adversity tunic mutated into a heavy armor......that 40% Dr before everything else...

[Autumn]

Lolzy you don't even really have much footing to stand on here, I don't think you've noticed how many martial artists end up being tankier than any other class in the game, balancing around a 1vs1 is not inherently healthy but this is the perspective I'm putting it in since most martial artists prefer those.

[Lolzytripd]

but this a roleplay game, where anyone can join a fight at any point, the game shouldn't be balanced with 1v1 in mind, it should be balanced around the fact that no fight should be 1v1

[Autumn]

What you're bringing up is almost entirely unrelated Lolzy, what's your opinion on mutated turtle shell? Hmm?

[Lolzytripd]

Well it already suffers +1m on getup, so even then a martial artist who kips up will still be at 6m, leaving them in the precarious spot of being unable to do anything if they proc a resist

Also the only worrisome multiclass interaction is if they somehow crit to get around this disadvantage and had fluer.

as such, move kip up to be main class martial artist only.

[Autumn]

And I've already tried that to no avail: http://www.neus-projects.net/viewtopic.p...lit=Kip+up

[Snake]

Though though. Let's not nerf Kip-Up just because 'one' item is breaking the rules here?

Heck, just adjust Turtle Shell to ignore Kip-Up and inflict a full 4M cost KD, as suggested. I'm fine with this. The excuse for this is not that 'oh but you mutated, it's an unarmored now!', it's that one of the scheduled side-effects are being ruined because of this unpredictable gimmick mutation.

So yeah. Either increase the momentum lost to 2, so it effectively becomes a 'nerf' to Turtle Shell. Or make Kip-Up ignore mutation so it only benefits those classic unarmored torsos who generally have 3-5 Armor.

Ta-duckin'-da, worth, because this is slowly taking over as the 'best' unarmored item, even for non-tanky people like Rogues and Mages. (Especially Rogue with Evasion, god help us all.)

[Autumn]

Exactly, I agree with Snake, thank you, though increasing the momentum loss to 2 will make people unable to get up after being knocked down entirely, I think disabling kip-up is a more simple way to put it.

[Joseph Jostar]

I personally think that being able to mutate 10* armors to start with wasn't the greatest idea, but more on-subject I feel like the DR-stacking is much more of an issue than kip-up (though that's still a bit silly). Like you demonstrated, maining martial artist gives unarmored Turtle Shell users as a whole a ridiculous amount of DR (nearly 40-50% without spending a SINGLE POINT in Defense, if it stacks additively, and still ~35-40% if it stacks multiplicatively!)

To be perfectly honest, Turtle Shell might not even be the issue so much as just how MUCH DR is available and the fact that all of it stacks. Much like how people were stacking the passives from Boxer and MG to become nigh-immune to physical damage before they got made into 'defensive knowledge' skills.