[Snake]

Can Setting Sun happen on 'the beginning of your next turn', instead of 'at the end of the round'?

So like, it stops mattering if you are faster or slower than the opponent? It's pretty lame to invest in CEL and lose the usability of one skill. It should be the other way around, CEL is underused and it should matter more in some simple facts like this (Also, can open room to some Skip plays.)

Plus, it doesn't make sense for your opponent to be slower and avoid a god damn giant energy blast casually, right? Let's not slide in more tools for the fat, 0 CEL 99 STR/DEF/RES/VIT people to abuse.

I think that making this a thing would fix a lot of Setting Sun's balance problems, since everybody will have a chance to avoid it, by just having CEL. And the Monks can be rewarded for doing their Shukuchi + Dense Thunder plays. (Plus, it would be more fucking cool to observe some teamwork.)

Also, there's no excuse for people to cry about CEL being a big factor here, since Monks are supposed to be dodgy, they even have skills that scale from Wind ATK.

[Sawrock]

I agree, people should not be rewarded for having low CEL.

[Snake]

Some few things that I have to add:

- Martial Artist has Evade bonuses.
- Monk even has an innate that gives SKI/CEL.

Everything for a MA/Monk suggests that they should be a perfect balance of dodge, damage and tankyness. Dumping aside one of their specialities should be punished by making them less viable. So why not?

[MegaBlues]

This is one of those system faults that needs a massive overhaul, just like with status effect ticking and anything that relies on the round counter.

[Neus]

So, what, it becomes useless for anyone with low CEL instead?

[Autumn]

It'd be no different, but a huge issue with setting sun is how uncounterplayable it is when people have low CEL, people have been so far as going to get metal shields to reduce their CEL in order to always go last in turn order and deal over 400-500 fire damage to people with little counterplay. (Still think the modifier for Setting Sun should be 10% per size, not 25%)

Having as low CEL possible shouldn't be a benefit that large, also like I said it'd be no different with the proposed change.

Player A has 20 CEL
Player B has 10

Player A uses setting sun
Player B has the ability to react to setting sun and accomodate for it.

Player B uses Setting Sun
Player A cannot avoid setting sun unless Kunai's suggestion is put into place.

Having an unavoidable mega huge-attack due to turn order alone only promotes tanky as fuck damage dealers and is just bad design in general because now squishy dodge characters will have to suffer.

[FiresTFS]

I agree, I see it as stupid myself to have someone heavy-slow charge up a blast and a nimble-quick person unable to escape, I mean it even requires a charge or something ICly which is why it waits till the end of the round if someone quick uses it.

Am I making sense? no?

I just see Kunai's suggestion as justice. That way it's kind of equal if it just waits till your next turn. (But no skip gimmicks please, it still wouldn't make sense that way.)

[Sawrock]

I'd rather have it be the same for everyone (setting sun falls on your next turn) than worse for people who have high CEL (setting sun falls on round end).

[Snake]

So, what, it becomes useless for anyone with low CEL instead?

Yes, that would make the skill more fair just because CEL is a stat point investment. Right now, people /with/ CEL are the ones who get fucked by Setting Sun, and it doesn't make sense at all, no matter how I try to think about it.

I'm pretty sure if this goes through, Setting Sun won't be needing any nerfs, since the counter-play for it will be counter-skipping, damaging enemy CEL or simply having more CEL (which is possible for almost every non-tanky classes). Tanks will be fine being slower, since they've put their CEL into DEF/RES to take them like a champ, so *shrug*.

It would be much better this way, since it would encourage people to have a balanced build in order to be a proper Monk, instead of STR/DEF/VIT dumping. We have Boxer for a MA class that doesn't need CEL, and Monk was always the hybrid class, since Pre-GR, so that would bring back some old memories too, along with it's identity.

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In addition:

And if it worries that they'll be losing a chunk of burst power due to this small adjustment, just move what would be of Setting Sun to Kadouha (power wise, the percentages mainly) and make Kadouha become Setting Sun's sibling, as Terra Strike is for Dragon Gale, and Sky Chariot is for Dense Thunder.
Nothing against it, and I'm sure a lot of us already tested Kadouha to prove that it's still not doing the fine cut it should be, for it's drawbacks.

(Sorry for using this thread to talk about another, but the skill is just this bad, even with some number swaps around.)

[Neus]

I changed Setting Sun to work this way:

- It now has a 3 round duration.
- When the duration ends or when the skill is used a second time, the sun will set doing its damage etc. (The second use doesn't create another sun.)