[Kameron8]

The map is (as far as PvP is concerned) a 21x19 grid, spawning teams in a wave shape exactly 10 tiles away from the enemy on the same X-axis as them. This heavily favors rush builds, since the 'First Move' talent will almost always allow a character to bridge that gap in 3m or less.

That means, the current 'top tier' round 0 aggressors are builds such as:

- Demon Hunters with guns, who can Burn up -> Winged Serpent to your team for one momentum, then shoot all of you with lead storm. Twice.
- VA's, who can run all the way behind the person they're facing and cutthroat them.
- Duelists, who can run most of the way, sidecut if they can't quite reach, and continue attacking afterward.

Rush builds don't extend to only damage, however. Crowd control rushing is equally, if not more desirable in large scale situations. Group-wide silence, interference, knockdown, etc, can win a fight before it really starts.

To avoid sounding like I'm rambling, the point I'm making is that not only are people spawning too close to the enemy teams for PvP, they're starting too close to their allies as well. My suggestion is to change the spawn pattern to a 'four-corners' pattern, that adds a little more distance to combatants, and unclumps larger teams to minimize the impact of AoE.

Current:

Suggested: (People will prioritize spawning in the lowest numbers, meaning a 1v1 would place people in slots 1 and 2, a 2v2 would place people in slots 1, 2, 3, and 4, and so on.)

With the new map, people would be hard pressed to cross the entire distance and still attack. Long ranged bows, Raging Sidecuts, and Winged Serpent can still accomplish it, but if you pull everyone to the very far corners you invert the problem and benefit buff heavy builds. I base these distances off of the idea that 11-13 move is what most people can achieve if they're trying to go fast, and 10 is the hard cap for heavy armored tanks.

Since the new spawning coordinates would be (6,4) (8,2) (14,2) (16,4) against (6,18) (8,16) (14,16) (16,18), the furthest anyone can ever be from an opponent is in a 1v1 scenario, where they'll be 20 tiles away. In 4v4 scenarios people will be 14 tiles from the nearest enemy. This means 19 tiles and 13 tiles of movement are required to get into melee for the worst and best case scenario, respectively.

That's just my idea, the real takeaway from this is that more distance than what we have now is needed, and unclumping large groups is also very important.

[Lolzytripd]

I like kam's suggestion

[Snake]

Same. Looking cool, Kam!

And maybe, just 'maybe', loop back to what I've typed and make the 'rearguard' position belong to the people who wield ranged weapons?

[Autumn]

Kam's idea would be perfect for preventing round 0 cheese, +1 all the way to that.

[Rendar]

After looking over Kam's lil template.

Yeah. I'd be fine with that. It's the best position that gets rid of the maximum amount of cheese. Of course, things like turn 0 quaking round trip still exist to insta-4v1-gank someone but. Whatever. Gets rid of most™ cheese for round 0 butt stabbing.

[Neus]

How much Move do you have on turn 0, by the way?

[Autumn]

Base wise, most people will start at 10 move when they have initiative, this can be further increased by Bands of the Centaur, saturn badge, Shoes of Swiftness, a class with 6 MV instead of 5 MV, and eating Custard for an additional +2 MV at the beginning of the battle.

In my expierence most characters end up with 10-11 MV, but if you wanna prevent first round buttstabs, you could also make it so that players default to facing the center of the battlefield, instead of the direction they're facing outside of combat.

[Kameron8]

First move gives five, and base movement is usually 5 or 6, so the minimum you'll see outside of people who just don't care about movement at all is 10 or 11. From there, custard makes +1 trivial, items like bands or saturn badges make +2 doable, and everything past that is usually not done unless you have Shukuchi, Charge, or Talvyd. So on average, 11-13. Tanks usually have 10, because of armor.

[Rendar]

Shukuchi/Charge/Auto-Enchant Talvyd are also major offenders to the movement thing.

Since they give +5~ or so movement (and are what makes actually running away from said classes near impossible since you can double move for 7m, or they can shukuchi/charge + move for 4 M and still hit your ass.

[Grandpa]

Since they give +5~ or so movement (and are what makes actually running away from said classes near impossible since you can double move for 7m, or they can shukuchi/charge + move for 4 M and still hit your ass.

This is a thread about positioning, not about movement overall. I'm sure looking at movement itself again some day would be a good idea, but I can't even tell what point you're trying to make other than "some classes can move better than others". If you lower the movement they give you, moving around the map becomes even more than a pain than it is right now. The only way that would be acceptable (to me, and to be fair I've been wrong before) would be if the map size was lowered overall, and then we'd just be back at square one.