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The (Un)official Guard Criticism/Salt Thread
#11
I'll throw my two cents in, too!

On Guard Activity:

One of the main problems with guards being active is that we all have lives. The three or four years ago when we first joined, a good chunk of us were probably in our mid-to-late teens. And now that it's been so long, we've all had to go to college or get a job or something like that. I know I'm hella busy for a good twelve hours of the day and get a small amount of freetime. Despite that, I try to get on at least once a week if I'm not out training (which I've been doing a hell of a lot of since army). The main problem, though, with getting on is that there is so much more everyone else would rather be doing.

Imagine working your twelve hour actual job and then coming home to stand around in the Cellsvich's square for hours on end with no actual RP because most people don't give two shits about the guard and don't try talking to them or are paranoid the slightest action they do will get them arrested so they move elsewhere or keep everything they say in whispers. Meanwhile, while everyone else is at least engaged in the game, you're bored out of your mind and can be doing anything else like hanging out with your real life friends or playing some cool video game. After years of this shit, a lot of guards get burned out from it. And then when they do actually get on, they get shitted on for being useless or never around (with some players taking the "guards are shit" to heart and making all their characters hate guards, regardless of everything).

(not to fucking mention that a lot of problems like happening at 2 o'clock in the morning on a workday or some shit)

On "Unjust" Prison Time:

I may come off like a dick when I say this, but it's pretty much how I feel: you do the crime, you do the time. And the people who complain about injustice are usually not nice people. I've seen a number of people claim to be this really dangerous criminal that's killed hundreds with just a flick of his wrist in some foreign country or something like that, which personally raises red flags with me. And then these people tend to have problems with authority, which does them zero good for them. Or try to do things behind a guard's back, thinking they don't notice (or assault a man right next to an actual NPC guard like some people who's names begin with "F&quotWink.

Now, there's some situations where I feel like a warning or a quick scare should come into play more, but it's mostly for teenagers and kids, unless they did something really bad.

On da Guard Meta

First off, I'd like to say that yes, guards handle matters differently from each other; it's human nature. It's also very IC. Bring it up to a higher-up if you feel this is unjust. Or pure OOC.
Secondly, yeah, a lot of guards also play villains and I also see no reason to say "stop having fun" to them. And if you want to know how to beat the guards, do this one tested and true method of escape: become vampire, kill self in prison, hide in Law's End and never log on again. Congrats, you fought the law and you won (this has happened since the dawn of guardhood).
One thing I'll say is that if your character is on the chopping block, a "major" crime and above should be the only things that get 'em the axe instead of just any crime. That'd at least help tone down those huge threads that complain about a violent criminal with a long track record being executed for something that can be seen as a joke.

That's probably it I have say for nowwwww. Except for, like, players shouldn't be too afraid of discussing their ideas of freeing their character from prison or the like with Chaos. Just expect to get a response in Valve Time.
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#12
Do Guards even get any IC training? Cause if they don't they probably should. Just like any job, whether it'd be working at a Grocery Store or guarding some important monument, people are trained before being let out to fulfill whichever task they signed up to do.

I don't know, possibly that may be able to alleviate some of the blowing out of proportion/misinterpretation that GSM mentioned. I'd think it'd get people on the same page, cause I've seen Guards argue with differing opinions on how to handle a situation. Not to mention, it'd create more IC bonding between players who aren't naturally friends in OOC.

I have a friend who was in the guard, and when they joined, only one player (ICly/OOCly) gave them tips, and after that they were just let off on their own. If you're going to be put in charge of protecting people, there should at least be stricter training.

Another thing I wanted to mention was Guard activity... but Ryuzaki basically covered that.
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#13
Any differing opinion on how to handle a situation is usually just IC, I don't think I've seen anything OOCly about that, how to OOCly handle a situation is usually discussed as a group regularly.
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#14
I mean my only current issue with the guards is

A) their sentencing of crimes
this can be fixed by just changing the death penalty from death by execution to death by service. You put some magical slave brand on the criminal that forces them into working for the emperor no matter how they feel on the matter, it could even be some fancy empire only spell that is part of the reason why the empire is the strongest nation and has managed to beat back oniga, force the kysei mercenary countries into a submissive role and currently be at some sort of peace with egwyn and altlasia

also just making all non violent crimes finable, violent crimes Time only ( and no amount of former crime can lead to a death penalty, non violent crimes don't affect time judgement for violent) and only violent crime that leads to a death or deaths will lead to an execution, slavery or lifetime conviction.


B) jails got nothing to do
This is an RP game, not a game of cops and robbers, criminals in game are not cheaters, rule breakers ect, the prison is just a soft ban and people log out because there is nothing to do in it.

I don't like that chaos is using the fact that they just log out as a reason to not improve the fort as it is just using a symptom to justify the disease causing it.

C) Jurisdiction
there should be different laws for what is and isn't a crime and crimes committed there are not enforceable elsewhere.
Example in egwyn murder might not be illegal, survival of the fittest, what not, if someone is killed there you cant call the guards on them when they teleport to the arena for some grinding.

Sigrogana guards would only have jurisdiction in the empire and its puppet oniga.
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#15
"Lolzytripd" Wrote:C) Jurisdiction
there should be different laws for what is and isn't a crime and crimes committed there are not enforceable elsewhere.
Example in egwyn murder might not be illegal, survival of the fittest, what not, if someone is killed there you cant call the guards on them when they teleport to the arena for some grinding.

Sigrogana guards would only have jurisdiction in the empire and its puppet oniga.

I'm confused on this point as that already happens. Each country has their own set of guards (which are played by the same Imperial Guard players), but the only real law difference is that magic is banned in Oniga.

Also, I don't believe making anyone doing something that'd bore them, like training, and has to fit into all the attendee's schedules when they probably have enough common sense to figure how to handle it. And if they don't know, that's why we have people who have been in the guard for years that can easily help them out and support them. If they don't reach out, there's little we can do for them then.
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#16
If all people had this amount of common sense, we wouldn't be clashing so often. Not to mention that common sense is objective aswell in many cases.

I can tell you for a fact, that not all have that. And not they should be the ones reaching out, but the guards who have experince and the know how should teach them/Give them tips.

What you are saying is like telling a new doctor trainee to do heart surgery while the specialist is sitting next to them and watches them doing everything wrong silently.
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#17
What the hell does IC training have to do with 30 OOC days "bans"?

I don't feel like typing much, but make getting jailed a bit more appealing than it is now, and people will stop whining when they do get locked in for screaming in Cellsvich.

As it is now, getting jailed gives no fucking development (if anything but waste their already eternal life, and this is quite literal because it's up to the player if their char gets older or not, since it's well-implicited that time is on the control of the player. Jail is no different in this case. Jail is often RPed as if they spent a small timeskip staring at the ceiling until guards got bored and kicked them out) to whatever 'villain' that got locked in.

Looping back to Falcien, I kind of relate to it so much. I had plenty of troublemakers back then that simply lost their lust when they got hauled in for the third or fourth time, such as Yuk'Han, Sora himself, Lina being a Vampire Hunter vigilante, etc etc. and the time I needed to wait on each one of them simply fucktoupled to the point if I "scream", I get like a week (yes, 7 days, 168 hours, 10080 minutes, 36288000 SECONDS) on Sora.

This happened, and became a meme. And get off with the favoritism thing, they don't hold back on me and I'm a guard, ok? If anything, I still ponder and wonder if I'm still the most hated of them for not logging in Nero as often as I do to Guard-kun (Guard NPC).

I know Papa Chaos has a busy life, but he needs to take a minute or ten from his time to finish his jail, create the laws (or just reveal what we charge people for) for each country, and fling out in a specific thread so people can have a reference and at last, FINES/COMMUNITY SERVICES/JAIL SERVICE/AMPUTATIONS (or severe physical punishments that leave one badly beaten for quite a while). The money earned/services done/punishments handled are used to pay for the damages done, not to give a golden chain for the Commander or satisfy his sadistic tendencies. (idk Gee tho)

There's also no money in the world that can pay for a life. It's all a topic for discussion too, but as always, I can't start shit, it needs to come from the one big boss behind all of this. I've been playing Skyrim a bit, and they don't quite like mass murderers. I also kind of want to see more decapitations happening in Cellsvich.

tl;dr Long ass jail times a shit and lazy, we need more deaths and action.
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#18
"catabur" Wrote:
"Lolzytripd" Wrote:C) Jurisdiction
there should be different laws for what is and isn't a crime and crimes committed there are not enforceable elsewhere.
Example in egwyn murder might not be illegal, survival of the fittest, what not, if someone is killed there you cant call the guards on them when they teleport to the arena for some grinding.

Sigrogana guards would only have jurisdiction in the empire and its puppet oniga.

I'm confused on this point as that already happens. Each country has their own set of guards (which are played by the same Imperial Guard players), but the only real law difference is that magic is banned in Oniga.

Also, I don't believe making anyone doing something that'd bore them, like training, and has to fit into all the attendee's schedules when they probably have enough common sense to figure how to handle it. And if they don't know, that's why we have people who have been in the guard for years that can easily help them out and support them. If they don't reach out, there's little we can do for them then.


What I mean is if a crime is committed in say...dormeho, imperial guards cannot arrest you in chaturanga, and chaturangan guards will not arrest them on behalf of the empire. The only exceptions being in the lore with oniga and the empire where the empire is basically puppeting oniga and can likely send their guards there without issue (but oniga guards don't get the same deal in the empire)
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#19
"Lolzytripd" Wrote:What I mean is if a crime is committed in say...dormeho, imperial guards cannot arrest you in chaturanga, and chaturangan guards will not arrest them on behalf of the empire.
1. If a known criminal from Sigrogana tries to jump over to Chaturanga and go 'haha you can't arrest me here', it's highly unlikely that Chaturanga won't go after them, especially when it's very much possible for said criminal to repeat their offenses on their soil.
2. If Chaturanga didn't go after them, the Empire can put pressure on them. Not to mention the fallout that can come from harboring what would likely be a serious criminal, which is twice as bad for a nation that's focused on being neutral to the rest of the Great Six.

Imperial guards will not jump continents, but if you're expecting for the rest of the Great Six to completely ignore the crimes you did on another continent's soil, think again.

(No, this doesn't mean petty crimes are going to ruin you in every nation forever, nor is it completely impossible to slip out into another nation while keeping yourself out of trouble.)
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[12:53:15 AM] Chaos: don't hit dyst
[12:53:18 AM] Chaos: that's cruelty to animals
[12:53:20 AM] Chaos: you have to shoot it
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#20
"Chaos" Wrote:
"Lolzytripd" Wrote:What I mean is if a crime is committed in say...dormeho, imperial guards cannot arrest you in chaturanga, and chaturangan guards will not arrest them on behalf of the empire.
1. If a known criminal from Sigrogana tries to jump over to Chaturanga and go 'haha you can't arrest me here', it's highly unlikely that Chaturanga won't go after them, especially when it's very much possible for said criminal to repeat their offenses on their soil.
2. If Chaturanga didn't go after them, the Empire can put pressure on them. Not to mention the fallout that can come from harboring what would likely be a serious criminal, which is twice as bad for a nation that's focused on being neutral to the rest of the Great Six.

Imperial guards will not jump continents, but if you're expecting for the rest of the Great Six to completely ignore the crimes you did on another continent's soil, think again.

(No, this doesn't mean petty crimes are going to ruin you in every nation forever, nor is it completely impossible to slip out into another nation while keeping yourself out of trouble.)


Chaos I don't mean in a ha ha ha can't arrest me way. I meant in a "Hold up, wheres your proof, this our citizen, oh you have proof he's a mass murderer, K we will extradite him to you".

But the empire wouldn't have the time to pressure their neighbors for every single indecent exposure, disturbing the peace, chronic vandalizer, ect they would only humor crimes befitting capital punishment, Also certain countries may not accept a crime in your as a crime in theirs or flat out believe them at all, I highly doubt altlasia would deport a Zeran to the empire considering they already look the other way for zeran pirates who harass ships all the time, and are probably bigger criminals than anything us players do.


edit, nevermind we seem to be on the same page but I still think a good list of exceptions and laws needs to be published for each region.
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