[Senna]

Okay so, with the adjustment--Well fixed of Massage. And then, that's all it takes to realize how tedious leveling youkai's can be, worst if you're a new Grand summoner with over 6 youkai's and so on. Especially after level 50. I saw some suggestions before about an experience share to all youkais but that would make the procedure too simple....But how it is now, it doesn't seem that bad.

The youkai level, the stats they get are the major deciding factor to how effective X youkai will be and how long they'll survive before someone boops them out of existence.

I don't think anyone is okay with spending 2-4 days grinding away in dungeons, trying to level one youkai to sixty. Worst if they have the full 12. They'll be at it for around a month and plus.

Different ways of increasing your youkai level and bond are certainly needed. I'm sure others will throw some suggestions about that but I'll only post this one here.

Is it possible to allow youkai's to access something like a full clear bonus as well? Or event a gift that for a short while, allows a certain percentage of the user's experience to increase the experience X youkai should be getting? Games or meals to provide them experience? Why not add some features like Pokemon? Whereas you can a command that lets you play with them, which grants a mini-game that cost physical stamina? Something like that to increase their bond levels.

Just some wild ideas I thought about really. My apologizes if it isn't setup in the Senna fashion.

[HexGirlBestGirl]

I personally advocate for the suffering of summoners. Grind hard, get good gains. People grind longer and harder for less things. (See: Items and gear for builds if they don't have friends to toss them stuff or probably transfer murai around to buy it from whatever person happens to have said goods.)

So personally, I think that's a part of the job. After all, Bonder is an option and you should put in at least some effort to get your gains. I'd be worried if a Grand Summoner didn't work hard to get all their youkai where they are.

At best, i'll say give them a full clear bonus as well if they were summoned within a battle in the BDP as a whole. But then you'd probably just summon storm once and then summon whichever ones you missed or storm again then only use your main DPS Youkai until further notice. Hardly any extra effort added.

So pretty much iffy on that.

[Perdition]

I actually agree with the above sentiment. GS is inherently broken in a game like this. The sanity testing grind is the biggest thing keeping the class in check. If it were very accessible to have 12 level 60 goons things would get real stupid real fast.

[Senna]

It's not able it getting there stupid fast, it's more about making it less tedious so the person doesn't want to put a bullet in their head during so. The grind for youkais at the moment is pretty bad. Despite your hatred for summoners and wanting to see it burn, you know it's crippling when someone can Legend extension, and relevel their character to sixty, three times before you could even get A youkai to level 55.

THAT is beyond demotivating.

That is what we call too grindy. Hence why I suggested letting them also get a Full clear bonus. And yes Detty, I do believe they should summon X youkai in one of the battle's prior if they want it. It won't be too fast nor will it be too slow.

[HexGirlBestGirl]

I'unno about you, but I usually get my Youkai to 60 with me since I usually summon them in every singular fight since that's kinda what a summoner does. Only really struggle the first LE run due to a lack of gear and such. Moment I get set up with even any level of survivability and what have you, it's pretty much just a matter of pressing a summon button or summon storm.

Personally, the only tedious part I can agree with from experience is literally just having to wait patiently for summon storm or summoning multiple youkai and making sure they don't get hit.

Ever since youkai were able to gain multiple levels per fight, i've honestly seen next to nothing wrong with grinding them nowadays. Most youkai can go from 1-60 with you easily if you just. S u m m o n T h e m So. I'm really failing to see how you're getting such numbers without being power grinded without spending the time to summon your youkai every fight.

The EXP Gain and requirements for a Youkai aren't all that different from an actual players after all. Sure, a player character can get more but that doesn't change that the gap isn't that large if you're just doing as I listed above.

[Senna]

That's the thing, I've seen people summon storm to get their youkais out, drink blue potion like it's power aid and pray their partner is able to kill the monsters before their FP runs out, yes. With the talent and everything. The problem is at, once you hit level 50 and up on the youkai, the curve spikes heavily. And yes, they are similar but a player character has many different ways to flat out improve how many experience they can gain. If they do get themselves the aspects, that'll improve greatly.

I'm not saying it should be baby easy whereas they can level a youkai in a single hour but more options to help improve it a bit.

[iStabOreos]

I actually agree with the above sentiment. GS is inherently broken in a game like this. The sanity testing grind is the biggest thing keeping the class in check. If it were very accessible to have 12 level 60 goons things would get real stupid real fast.

I'm going to be a bit blunt here for the two dolts not taking their hate boners somewhere else.

First, fighting a summoner is an interference shell away, there's one.

Second, interference the status, or doing stuff that'll allow their pools of FP to not easily recover when they summon storm.

Third, keep your hate to a minimum as this isn't what this post is about, given the changes with exp grind in general.

That being said, and attempting to bring this whole point back, is simple, yes. I do agree that youkai should have some degree of benefit from full clear bonuses, I thought they did previously, but I could be wrong. As long as you keep said youkai summoned so they can reap in the benefits of the dungeon. Because while massaging is fine for friendship and some exp gain, the time between CD of massaging makes things tick down slower.

[HexGirlBestGirl]

I actually agree with the above sentiment. GS is inherently broken in a game like this. The sanity testing grind is the biggest thing keeping the class in check. If it were very accessible to have 12 level 60 goons things would get real stupid real fast.

I'm going to be a bit blunt here for the two dolts not taking their hate boners somewhere else.

First, fighting a summoner is an interference shell away, there's one.

Second, interference the status, or doing stuff that'll allow their pools of FP to not easily recover when they summon storm.

Third, keep your hate to a minimum as this isn't what this post is about, given the changes with exp grind in general.

That being said, and attempting to bring this whole point back, is simple, yes. I do agree that youkai should have some degree of benefit from full clear bonuses, I thought they did previously, but I could be wrong. As long as you keep said youkai summoned so they can reap in the benefits of the dungeon. Because while massaging is fine for friendship and some exp gain, the time between CD of massaging makes things tick down slower.

I merely opened up with such a thing. I already pointed out that i've hardly had any issues with grinding myself and the only tedious part overall is the whole "you have to summon every single youkai out" ordeal. Rather than the actual grind itself. Depends overall on what class you play, but y'know. My points were already made so do go read those up above.

However, consider that summoners can get higher status resist than most due to potentially easily getting 30% extra of it just from having the three fairies. Honestly sounds like a "just go MG or get fucked" kind of ordeal. But yes. This is about the EXP Grind. To which i'll address.

That's the thing, I've seen people summon storm to get their youkais out, drink blue potion like it's power aid and pray their partner is able to kill the monsters before their FP runs out, yes. With the talent and everything. The problem is at, once you hit level 50 and up on the youkai, the curve spikes heavily. And yes, they are similar but a player character has many different ways to flat out improve how many experience they can gain. If they do get themselves the aspects, that'll improve greatly.

I'm not saying it should be baby easy whereas they can level a youkai in a single hour but more options to help improve it a bit.

Personally, I usually just kill them myself since I have minimal reason not to be able to do so with how PvE is as a whole right now. Summoner doesn't need to be a main class either so temporarily swapping around to make life easier based on your gear/what have you might help greatly. I usually ain't always fully kitted out and all that while I grind my Youkai. But usually the summoner themselves should be able to at least kill mobs or you're unironically probably fucked if your youkai aren't a high enough level for their kind to manage on their own.

Likewise, the sooner you level your FP , the better. But really depends on how you, yourself can function to kill. Remember folks, you don't necessarily have to try and use your finished build as it's growing. Especially if you plan on LEing. Then why not just play something that y'know, helps you grind or what have you? Barring wanting to be IC while grinding, of course.

As for the Level 50 spike, hardly noticed it do the previously mentioned paragraph. As far as I see it, it only took about a good hour longer due to lack of EXP Boosts compared to how I was going. Likely since I didn't use Tactician or Combat Training or Brain Food or anything. I merely ran off of Deja Vu the second time around. I tend to go

>Determine how many times i'm going to LE (Usually only twice for me.)
>Get to Level 60 making build:tm: that makes it easier to grind whatever I need while getting youkai out here and there.
>Assess gear.
>Determine build based on gear obtained or obtainable (be it from friends or whatever.)
>LE
>Repeat
>If going to LE again anyway, make build to assist in grinding otherwise play build as normal and grind GS on Xth go through.

The point being that you either can make a build temporarily where you're capable of helping your youkai grind or you can grind them as you go along your first time. In general, i'm rarely getting much more EXP than my Youkai as a result and probably admittedly only don't notice it since I plan ahead of time. That's not exactly something a new player would do. Hence.

I'll also add to my previous suggestion of allowing FC Bonuses to summoned (within dungeon) Youkai.

Make it so that they can get LaPlace.NET Quest EXP too. Primarily since there's the Black Blood Quests that'd also help alleviate such a problem.

That's about all I got to say and suggest.

[iStabOreos]

Okay so, with the adjustment--Well fixed of Massage. And then, that's all it takes to realize how tedious leveling youkai's can be, worst if you're a new Grand summoner with over 6 youkai's and so on. Especially after level 50. I saw some suggestions before about an experience share to all youkais but that would make the procedure too simple....But how it is now, it doesn't seem that bad.

The youkai level, the stats they get are the major deciding factor to how effective X youkai will be and how long they'll survive before someone boops them out of existence.

I don't think anyone is okay with spending 2-4 days grinding away in dungeons, trying to level one youkai to sixty. Worst if they have the full 12. They'll be at it for around a month and plus.

Different ways of increasing your youkai level and bond are certainly needed. I'm sure others will throw some suggestions about that but I'll only post this one here.

Is it possible to allow youkai's to access something like a full clear bonus as well? Or event a gift that for a short while, allows a certain percentage of the user's experience to increase the experience X youkai should be getting? Games or meals to provide them experience? Why not add some features like Pokemon? Whereas you can a command that lets you play with them, which grants a mini-game that cost physical stamina? Something like that to increase their bond levels.

Just some wild ideas I thought about really. My apologizes if it isn't setup in the Senna fashion.

Restating this again, this is about youkai exp gain, not your own exp gain from Green gear, tactician, experience from combat training, and deja vu and vera wa. We're talking about youkai, you know the other shit we grind up to level 60.

The beings that really only get

Tutor for their exp gain.

What you're sitting there and suggestion is nothing more than a temporary band-aid, not a fix to an issue stated in the thread just a "Well, here's how I grind my youkai with my build."

The whole point here is, and I stress to tell you to stay focus, cause I know that's hard to do: Should youkai while grinding gain full clear bonuses in dungeons to make grinding them a bit faster especially at the level 50 mark when you need an exorbitant amount of exp for them to gain a single level, this is with the aid the massage that you can only do for one youkai every IC day.

The answer being yes, no specific build, no vera wa or deja vu which doesn't help the youkai at all. No Green Gear because of all of these FACTORS INTO THE PLAYER's EXP and not the monster you're grinding, dummy.

[HexGirlBestGirl]

Restating this again, this is about youkai exp gain, not your own exp gain from Green gear, tactician, experience from combat training, and deja vu and vera wa. We're talking about youkai, you know the other shit we grind up to level 60.

The beings that really only get

Tutor for their exp gain.

What you're sitting there and suggestion is nothing more than a temporary band-aid, not a fix to an issue stated in the thread just a "Well, here's how I grind my youkai with my build."

The whole point here is, and I stress to tell you to stay focus, cause I know that's hard to do: Should youkai while grinding gain full clear bonuses in dungeons to make grinding them a bit faster especially at the level 50 mark when you need an exorbitant amount of exp for them to gain a single level, this is with the aid the massage that you can only do for one youkai every IC day.

The answer being yes, no specific build, no vera wa or deja vu which doesn't help the youkai at all. No Green Gear because of all of these FACTORS INTO THE PLAYER's EXP and not the monster you're grinding, dummy.

Bro, I was literally saying that with Tutor, and me only having Deja Vu as my EXP Increase, I literally only get 10% more EXP than my Youkai do. And simply don't have much trouble with grinding due to that. I literally even said that new players aren't gonna go and do what I do thus the full clear meme should probably be implemented. But it's still an option to plan ahead all the same.

I was more trying to get the point across that the time spent grinding and still keeping up with your youkai due to a literal 10% EXP gain Difference + Full Clear Bonuses has only amounted to a total of on average, an extra hour of work for grinding all my usually 12 youkai to 60 alongside me.

I'm not disagreeing at all with the fact that they probably should get more ways to get EXP since I was saying that i'm likely affected from the fact that I already know how to grind, thus this affects my perception of this shit.

Hence why I felt it necessary to mention. More so as a 'This is what I do, and thusly don't suffer but wait a minute, that's stupid. Why must one have to do this? reality check kind of deal. Was less of a suggestion in that regard.

The whole point here is, and I stress to tell you to stay focus, cause I know that's hard to do: Should youkai while grinding gain full clear bonuses in dungeons to make grinding them a bit faster especially at the level 50 mark when you need an exorbitant amount of exp for them to gain a single level, this is with the aid the massage that you can only do for one youkai every IC day.

The answer being yes, no specific build, no vera wa or deja vu which doesn't help the youkai at all. No Green Gear because of all of these FACTORS INTO THE PLAYER's EXP and not the monster you're grinding, dummy.

And again. I already said yes overall. And specific builds merely help with lowering the time you have to grind since all you do is have to summon youkai then y'know. Kill things like normal. Thus the summoner being able to kill enemies in an effective and timely manner naturally lowers the suffering in that regard. I'm not sure where the rest of that came from, personally.

Since I literally stated that I was lacking everything besides Deja Vu for a reason. The mere fact that i'm capable of still grinding normally while still being as speed-effective overall is the point at hand.



Now, correct me if i'm wrong but i'm almost positively sure that the Youkai need the same exact amounts of EXP as a player for all their levels. And to my knowledge, they don't get naturally split EXP, but rather just don't get any EXP Bonuses besides Tutor which goes up to 15% additional EXP. I don't know if they get Battle Bonuses that give you more at the end of a fight. Likely not.

So. Once again.

Just make it so that if you summon a youkai in a BDP, it's viable for the full dungeon clear bonus.
Make Laplace Quests also give your youkai EXP.

For the reason of. And I must stress this quite a bit. It is possible to keep up with them but immensely unrealistic to expect that of a new player or an already existing summoner due to the fact of the matter being this requires knowledge of the game and the gear to do so in a timely manner. Possibility Overall =/= No need for change.



Is there any more confusion. Since I'd imagine that i'm not wording things right still.