[Perdition]

I actually agree with the above sentiment. GS is inherently broken in a game like this. The sanity testing grind is the biggest thing keeping the class in check. If it were very accessible to have 12 level 60 goons things would get real stupid real fast.

I'm going to be a bit blunt here for the two dolts not taking their hate boners somewhere else.

First, fighting a summoner is an interference shell away, there's one.

Second, interference the status, or doing stuff that'll allow their pools of FP to not easily recover when they summon storm.

Third, keep your hate to a minimum as this isn't what this post is about, given the changes with exp grind in general.

That being said, and attempting to bring this whole point back, is simple, yes. I do agree that youkai should have some degree of benefit from full clear bonuses, I thought they did previously, but I could be wrong. As long as you keep said youkai summoned so they can reap in the benefits of the dungeon. Because while massaging is fine for friendship and some exp gain, the time between CD of massaging makes things tick down slower.

No one is 'hating' summoner. But apparently you lack reading comprehension so I'll try and say it more clearly so that you can maybe understand the point. Saying something broken isn't the same thing as hating on it. Objectively speaking, GS is much stronger than other options. Summoner is one of my favorite classes.

Now with that out of the way. "Fighting a summoner is an interference shell away" Ah yes, the great argument of 'just be Magic Gunner'. Even then, arguably the strongest part of summoner isn't the youkai swarm but the fact you have 12 passives and a bunch of utility that you can install for any given situation.

Anyway, the speed at which one is able to get youkai to 60 is right where it needs to be.

[SolAndLuna]

Seems to me like both sides need to chill a little bit. Stuff like "I'm going to be a bit blunt here for the two dolts not taking their hate boners somewhere else" or "apparently you lack reading comprehension so I'll try and say it more clearly so that you can maybe understand the point" isn't exactly helping any of you get your points across.

Now, with that out of the way... I honestly agree that something should be added to make youkai less of a pain to grind up to 60. To put it simply, unless you go into grinding with a set plan already, you're going to get tired of it really quickly, and you'll normally just drop the idea before you're done when you realize that you've reached level 60 and your youkai are at about 30-40 because you didn't summon every single one at your disposal in every fight you were in.

Now, you might argue that "it's a broken class" and all that, but at the end of the day, it is beatable, especially now that actually summoning is getting indirectly nerfed soon with youkai initiative being turned to 0. In 1v1s? Sure, the passives make it difficult, but with youkai taking 1-2 of your turns just to warm up enough to attack soon, you can normally bring a youkai down to half health, if not further, before you're actually in trouble, and Install is main-class only, so any sort of immunities or anything like that are also not always available. In team fights? They can be a pain, but they're hardly that much of a menace. They're about as difficult to deal with as anyone else.

And before anyone claims I'm biased... well, I likely am to some degree, given that I play the class more than most others, but I also know a decent number of people that could beat Grand Summoners in a 1v1 without using Magic Gunner or anything of the sort. It's far from impossible. I recognize that the class is powerful, definitely, but I'm not sure if it's really broken anymore, at least not by itself.

Oh, and...

I actually agree with the above sentiment. GS is inherently broken in a game like this. The sanity testing grind is the biggest thing keeping the class in check. If it were very accessible to have 12 level 60 goons things would get real stupid real fast.

This isn't something I agree with, sorry. First, Engineer exists, it gives you 4 easily accessible level 55 goons. Level 70, if you choose to Destiny Rogue, which some people have alongside Spellthief. For less cost, too, arguably, since it's 50 FP and 3 momentum to place down at no additional cost while youkai keep feeding on your FP constantly while you're trying to act. One of the bots also has Scapegoat Shield, which is... a hell of a thing, honestly. That said, people haven't given too many complaints about that class, at least to my knowledge - the only thing they had an issue with is the one skill I mentioned.

Second, and more importantly... What's the point of having a class that no one will want to use? Whether due to the insane grind to get all the youkai to level 60, or making sure they stay at high friendship so they don't auto-unsummon at bad times, or even the near-constant disdain people seem to have both for the class and anyone that dares touch it making you hate the characters you've made if you take people's words to heart, it's not a very accessible class. Whether you like the class or not, this isn't what it should be like - if someone wants to play a character that relies on otherworldly creatures' power, they should definitely have to put in some effort, but it shouldn't be three times as much effort as a class that just kicks people with ice and somehow does more damage in a shorter span of time in a decent amount of cases, while also having enough defensive options to survive even without elemental resistances, as well as ways to get around the few weaknesses they have.

TLDR to that wall of text - improving youkai grinding so people don't have to take infinitely longer than others is a good thing, it being a broken class may not necessarily apply soon, Engineer already exists to show why more easily accessible Grand Summoner shouldn't be a problem if done right, and even if everything else was wrong, some content that can be used in both PvE and PvP only being blocked off to the infinitely patient is not a good thing, regardless of whether you like the class or not.

[Slydria]

If you guys can't discuss these things without getting weirdly hostile about it then I'm going to lock this topic. So knock it off with the insults.

As for the topic, in my opinion, grinding several Youkai is overly tedious and is the biggest reason I don't tend to play Grand Summoner at all these days.

Whether Grand Summoners should have up to 12 Youkai worth of options is another topic but obviously the more you want, the longer it's going to take to maximize them, which is a fair enough trade-off. However I don't think it should currently feel as slow as it does considering Youkai are secondary, why shouldn't they be easier to level up than players are?

[Autumn]

Yeah no on the topic at hand, grinding youkai is just a huge chore, if we can just have the interaction where massage can be used every in game hour then the grind from 50-60 is only a relatively easy time sink (which you can use to RP with), you'll still get way more worth grinding a youkai from 1-50 yourself as well so the complete experience is never actually removed.

[Senna]

Ehhhh, the massage from 50-60 sounds easy on paper but it really isn't? It's base on skill, if you don't have around 50+ skill, you'll find that you'll end up doing 2-3+ massages to level up a youkai. So 2-3+ hours per a level, if the game doesn't lag. Massage only affects one youkai at a time so it still adds into the tedious statement.