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Lich base stats
#1
I guess it would be sort of unprecedented, but I think the Lich base stats should be tweaked--specifically its 6 base guile. It seems like kind of a joke since all guile does (I guess there's the flanking bonus but...) is buff crit damage, and Liches will most likely not be doing any crits. Even when lightning crits scaled with crit, they're incapable of those too. I'm unsure of where you'd move the stats from guile, but literally anywhere but that stat would be fine imo.
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#2
Liches are supposed to be highly intelligent and thats supposed to be the explanation behind the base GUI, I personally find it little of an issue when they have some other amazing stats such as incredibly high RES/WIL and SKI.

You'd be re-allocating 2-3 points to SAN more than likely, and while I don't disagree with that entirely, I do think the potential for an acid themed lich is still very much a possibility worth exploring for their base GUI currently. (On top of the skill slots it provides innately)
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  • FatherCrixius
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#3
Going acid is just sound except worse because there are no ways to buff your acid attack other than snake tooth necklace, which requires you to waste an accessory slot. On top of that, the acid spells you have access to outside of your custom tome aren't tailored toward dealing damage. On top of that acid has something capable of providing immunity to it in Hatsu, which isn't that uncommon due to Seiryuu being oppressive and the dragon package being a no brainer for it.

I'm aware of what guile represents as a character trait, but it's still wasted stats. As far as the extra skill slot due to the value of the guile and apt raising it, that's also definitely not worth having your stats just about anywhere else. On top of that, since the guile's only real benefit is ease of an extra skill slot, humans get that for free without their stats being stacked in a useless stat for them. And then on top of all of that, their extremely high base skill makes it unlikely they'll be hurting for skill slots on top of them likely being mages. For a race that is heavily encouraged to invest in SAN, you would think it would have at least 3 san. Just about all the races that get a form of benefit from SAN have about 3 SAN base, but all of them have at least 1. Having 0 is also a joke.

The points in Guile could easily be put in SAN, FAI, or even LUC since the Lich has a decent base CEL of 4. The LUC's crit chance and crit evade bonuses are obviously irrelevant but at least it makes an evade version easier to pull off. It's also a lot less of a waste than guile.
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  • levianaught
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#4
(11-27-2020, 04:50 PM)Perdition Wrote: Going acid is just sound except worse because there are no ways to buff your acid attack other than snake tooth necklace, which requires you to waste an accessory slot. On top of that, the acid spells you have access to outside of your custom tome aren't tailored toward dealing damage. On top of that acid has something capable of providing immunity to it in Hatsu, which isn't that uncommon due to Seiryuu being oppressive and the dragon package being a no brainer for it.

I'm aware of what guile represents as a character trait, but it's still wasted stats. As far as the extra skill slot due to the value of the guile and apt raising it, that's also definitely not worth having your stats just about anywhere else. On top of that, since the guile's only real benefit is ease of an extra skill slot, humans get that for free without their stats being stacked in a useless stat for them. And then on top of all of that, their extremely high base skill makes it unlikely they'll be hurting for skill slots on top of them likely being mages. For a race that is heavily encouraged to invest in SAN, you would think it would have at least 3 san. Just about all the races that get a form of benefit from SAN have about 3 SAN base, but all of them have at least 1. Having 0 is also a joke.

The points in Guile could easily be put in SAN, FAI, or even LUC since the Lich has a decent base CEL of 4. The LUC's crit chance and crit evade bonuses are obviously irrelevant but at least it makes an evade version easier to pull off. It's also a lot less of a waste than guile.

Perhaps in its current state acid is unlike a majority of elements in that it doesn't have a lot of diversity and tools to use, but stand-alone it is simply okay as an element, memey at best given its not even close to viable, while you may be able to argue Hatsu as a source of stopping its damage, that is merely a situational stop to it, and I could argue planetarium/konosekai as a way to resist sound all the same. It is also not remotely fair to argue how un-viable a certain element is in order to change stats on a whim, this could turn on a dime at any time.

It really isn't wasted stats, the amount of GUI you get base assures at least 1 skill slot, and thats never going to be a bad thing no matter how you look at it, because that will also reduce the requirement of obtaining another skill slot by investing a couple more points into GUI after APT, on top of scaling certain tomes even minorly.

For a race thats highly encouraged to build SAN it having 0 is a relatively safe balance decision at the current moment, given just how hard they do scale off of SAN, I want to note their HP penalty is nowhere near as large as it used to be, and liches end up being both HP and FP monsters at the end of the day given their liking for having SAN.

Lastly, regarding the stats you have proposed here, FAI could be useful to specific builds but I doubt a heretic race of arcane beings that could come from an incredibly diverse background (Literally any race can become a lich) will have a certain attunement or liking to a god, or at the very least generally in that case.

For LUC, this would be a rather useless stat for them unless they built dodge, which is also not even that good of a stat for liches to be quite honest, given their lack of ability to be crit in the first place.

That leaves SAN and APT, which I can honestly live with a few points without, its not the end of the world.
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#5
The extra guile does give them skill slots too. It's not worthless.
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#6
I don't really think base stats should be adjusted just so we can have a more optimised build. For any race.
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  • FatherCrixius
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#7
Mostly what Spo says. Guile makes sense for them Lore wise and mechanically its not useless either.

Besides, Liches are currently in a really solid position.
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