[Tanasinn]

The tax system doesn't even begin to take half as much as equipment upgrading does, and inflation has not been a problem for a full 7 years without taxes, even when murai used to be generated at more than twice the current rate per fight.

That said, for the very few that do a lot of crafting, removing tax-per-craft on portable kits is inherently pay to win. For 100 asagos - 10k murai, or $1 - I would have saved myself over 60,000 murai in the past week. Which would let me, say, buy another shopkeep, a house, and so on. It's very pay to win at the top end of crafting, even if 99% of players wouldn't really benefit all that much from it. It'd be better to just remove it entirely, if it has to change.

[Trexmaster]

Cost to buy bread from Risu:

Cost to craft bread:

 
Not pictured: 1 Flour 1 Sugar required to craft. (Random drop from chests or pay 5 Murai from a Portable Kitchen OR Pay 20 Murai from Risu/other vendors. Sugar is the same deal as Flour)

I'm in agreement to remove the crafting fees entirely and if necessary bring back stamina costs if it's really perceived as an issue that some people craft a lot, since for the most part stamina is a fairly equal measure to tax crafting.

Or alternatively just don't restrict crafting behind taxes or stamina costs at all. We already got a huge jump in how expensive recipes are material wise, combined with the new taxes on buying anything from vendors crafted goods became more expensive across the board. Though I don't want to derail the thread too much talking about taxes in general.

If we're going to get rid of crafting fees on donator items we might as well get rid of them all, the boon you get from the donator item is the ability to craft anywhere without being beheld to wherever crafting stations are. One donator item (portable kitchen) even has a shop in it that has discounted reagents. The Portable Science Kit is also immensely useful in that it allows you to break down items at any time instead of having to run all the way to Qwarence in Law's End. The Portable Smithy Kit is mostly just for the crafting, but being able to swap around weapon parts on the fly can be useful for those who run highly polarizing parts like Hellhound Bullets or Light/Fire Arrows.

TL;DR: Remove crafting fees in general, they only hurt crafters who don't already have hundreds of thousands of Murai sitting around to burn on fees.

[Balor]

Cost to buy bread from Risu:

Cost to craft bread:

 
Not pictured: 1 Flour 1 Sugar required to craft. (Random drop from chests or pay 5 Murai from a Portable Kitchen OR Pay 20 Murai from Risu/other vendors. Sugar is the same deal as Flour)

I'm in agreement to remove the crafting fees entirely and if necessary bring back stamina costs if it's really perceived as an issue that some people craft a lot, since for the most part stamina is a fairly equal measure to tax crafting.

Or alternatively just don't restrict crafting behind taxes or stamina costs at all. We already got a huge jump in how expensive recipes are material wise, combined with the new taxes on buying anything from vendors crafted goods became more expensive across the board. Though I don't want to derail the thread too much talking about taxes in general.

If we're going to get rid of crafting fees on donator items we might as well get rid of them all, the boon you get from the donator item is the ability to craft anywhere without being beheld to wherever crafting stations are. One donator item (portable kitchen) even has a shop in it that has discounted reagents. The Portable Science Kit is also immensely useful in that it allows you to break down items at any time instead of having to run all the way to Qwarence in Law's End. The Portable Smithy Kit is mostly just for the crafting, but being able to swap around weapon parts on the fly can be useful for those who run highly polarizing parts like Hellhound Bullets or Light/Fire Arrows.

TL;DR: Remove crafting fees in general, they only hurt crafters who don't already have hundreds of thousands of Murai sitting around to burn on fees.

This is my dream. Crafting fees only hurt crafters who haven't been playing this game for 5+ years.

There are many choices made to make murai more valuable to people with huge stores of it, that have only hurt newer players attempting to invest time, and energy into the game to offer services not everything wants to or even has the spare time to spend on them.

[adamkad1]

Just drop crafting taxes. They arent very good at their job anyway

[Snake]

RIP newbie crafters. Better suck up to the veterans.

[KitKatarine]

Slight bump because I have slightly revised my stance on this, after much deliberation and consideration.

1) Yeet the crafting tax. All of it. Just throw it out the window. It's garbage. This is my stance on it and I'll be firm with it. All of the crafting tax. Every crafting station. Paid, unpaid, fine whatever just throw it away. My first post was perhaps worded poorly and I'll rescind that stance that it should only be for the paid crafting tables. Just, please, get rid of the crafting tax it's awful.

2) Tax OTHER things more harshly if people hoarding murai is such an issue. Shopkeeper stands is a potential solution. Or, have something that looks at how much murai someone has on their character and adjust taxes according to that amount. A tax multiplier or something. Something.

Taxes were a terrible addition imo because, as MANY people have stated, it only serves to hurt newer players trying to get into crafting, and those people without a huge pool of murai to draw from have to resort to other stuff (Does selling asagorians for murai sound familiar to anyone?).


Also levelling crafting is atrocious but that's another thread for another day and maybe someone else can make that thread. I'm tired.

[Jeff]

Or, have something that looks at how much murai someone has on their character and adjust taxes according to that amount.

This is an awful idea for so many reasons. But, I want to repeat what I said earlier about a different (higher) tax rate for players who have legend extended.

[KitKatarine]

Or, have something that looks at how much murai someone has on their character and adjust taxes according to that amount.

This is an awful idea for so many reasons. But, I want to repeat what I said earlier about a different (higher) tax rate for players who have legend extended.

Do explain why it would be an awful idea. 

Also, why people that have legend extended, exactly? Personally, I feel like it wouldn't solve the problem either. Any new character can LE. With diligence, you can typically LE in about a week. Maybe less depending on how often you grind. I can say for certain that after your first LE, you're not gonna have several tens of thousands in your bank either. 

The reason taxes were introduced in the first place was because so many people were sitting on several hundred thousand murai and had nowhere to spend it, so taxes (aka, yoinking your murai to the aether) were introduced. However, it just punishes new players wanting to get into crafting. 

My suggestion was if taxes NEEDED to be introduced. I would like to see them gone. Completely. I'd rather not have tax on anything, because crafting is expensive already and you don't need to take murai on top of that -- As Trex stated previously

[Jeff]

Or, have something that looks at how much murai someone has on their character and adjust taxes according to that amount.

This is an awful idea for so many reasons. But, I want to repeat what I said earlier about a different (higher) tax rate for players who have legend extended.

Do explain why it would be an awful idea. 

Also, why people that have legend extended, exactly? Personally, I feel like it wouldn't solve the problem either. Any new character can LE. With diligence, you can typically LE in about a week. Maybe less depending on how often you grind. I can say for certain that after your first LE, you're not gonna have several tens of thousands in your bank either. 

The reason taxes were introduced in the first place was because so many people were sitting on several hundred thousand murai and had nowhere to spend it, so taxes (aka, yoinking your murai to the aether) were introduced. However, it just punishes new players wanting to get into crafting. 

My suggestion was if taxes NEEDED to be introduced. I would like to see them gone. Completely. I'd rather not have tax on anything, because crafting is expensive already and you don't need to take murai on top of that -- As Trex stated previously

On why it would be a bad idea:
1) "The more you have, the more we take" is already a discouraging principle whose morality is questionable.
2) In real life, people hide money in investments or overseas. In game, players would hide it on alts or with friends.
3) Because you de-incentivize players with less money from participating in the economy trying to earn more.

On legend extension:
Legend extension is a choice. A player is not forced to do it, so if your aim is a variable tax rate (i.e. higher rates on more experienced players), then offer players the option of taking a higher tax rate along with their legend extension benefits. Don't have enough murai yet? That's okay, you can just wait a few more days before you LE.

On taxes generally:
I agree that crafting taxes are punishing on new players, and would like to see those fees completely removed. But any MMO needs money sinks, and again I have to praise the shopkeeper system both in terms of renting the stall and paying extra to purchase items from them. If more money needs to be drained, I would look into adjusting those two things even at variable rates as previously mentioned. On top of that, add a house rental system similar to stall rental, but double the maximum time.

[Mewni]

The idea of tax going to people that LE'd is absurd, you can do multiple LE's in a day on your own, and many crafting recipes can only be done if you put a ink on the craft of choice.

Thats a very bad take that doesn't separate new from old players at all.

Also: Oof at adding rental time payments for houses, some of us run high-traffic RP areas and don't have time to go farming for Murai since we are stuck taking care of the place.