[Snake]

The "Invoking" status effect, the one you obtain while preparing a big spell, seems to have a few glaring problems tied to it. Mostly in terms of its duration, and how it can be dispelled.

Since magic has inherently a lot of counterplay, I don't think it should stay the same for a substatus of successfully using an invocation. You spent already 7M to gain the status, and if you move, take damage or get silenced, you won't be able to go through with it anyway.

Having people running away from you and waiting out until the invocation status is spent feels like salt on the wound most of the time, if the spell you're using doesn't have global reach, or is a buff.

SO!

Could the status get a few changes:

- It now lasts 10 rounds.
- It cannot be dispelled by most effects.

This way it'd probably not be just a whole round dumped in the trash bin in most cases people seem to be cheesing it.

[Senna]

Could the status get a few changes:

- It now lasts 10 rounds. - No?
- It cannot be dispelled by most effects. - Also no.

Weighing the strength of the spells comes first before making a suggestion like this bud. If people are running, just allow normal movements to be used while Invco'ing a spell.

[Poruku]

I don't really see the need for this, but I do think invokes getting scrombled by null shell and that one magic stone to be a little strong

[Trexmaster]

Making Invoking undispellable AND lasting that long means you have no feasible way to stop the invocation bar Silence or outright killing the caster.

The means by which you can even dispel Invoking are few and far between. Most dispels are only one or two buffs, which might not even get rid of Invoking depending on how many buffs the caster has.

Null shell is a lot more of an investment to use its dispel nowadays, since you're having to use High Charge that's 6m you're spending (or at least 4m if you're using Quick and Wild), then you're out of using shell effects until you wait a few rounds or burn 3m on Cooldown.

The only other dispel I can recall that's higher than 1-2 is Wash Away when you're on void pollution which is often very difficult to setup without some meme composition given the RNG nature of where void pollution can even end up.

So I don't think Invoking needs to be undispellable, nor last that long. Considering the result of someone not kiting the range of an invocation being instantaneous death most of the time I can't really feel too bad if an invocation is responded to with kiting.

Like Senna said, this is more of an issue with individual invocations if anything being so strong you either run away from it or die without dispels, silence, or ludicrous DR to whatever they're doing.

[The Alpha Bat]

I really don't think kiting should be a viable response to anything but that's a larger issue than what we're talking about here.

The fact of the matter is, invocations are a little gimped right now. Considering that most non-evoker invocations are either map-wide or self-targeting, I think it's safe to say we're talking about evoker here.

A year or two ago everyone came to a very funny realization: you can stand still and spend nine momentum for a chance at a singular strong attack or you can spend nine momentum to cast the same non-invocation spell three times more safely and now, often, for more damage.

"Chance" meaning that you are not guaranteed to land your attack nor is said attack guaranteed to deal a lot of damage. Outside of HSDW, opponents will have a turn to respond to your invocation before it comes out. This is a very bad thing for the caster for many reasons I feel I shouldn't have to explain (hint: it ties back to the purpose of this thread and beyond.) However, using HSDW will usually prompt the same sort of behavior before you even start casting. You can silence the caster, making them unable to invoc anyway. You can remove the HSDW status leading you into a loop (while getting free hits in) or forcing the evoker to change how they play entirely. Or you can start running. Thanks to the recent nerf to Blink, this is pretty much guaranteed to work outside a certain wind element invocation. You know the one. 

It's been brought up that some invocations are too strong to allow them to hit you. Maybe. But certainly not all of them are like that and it does indeed come down each one individually. If after being looked at as a whole here they need some more fine-tuning, so be it. That's the name of the game. Do keep in mind that this is using nine to fifteen momentum on a class that's one role is being a powerhouse. There are plenty of other things that can kill you within that momentum investment.


So let's look at Kunai's solutions again.

- It now lasts 10 rounds.
This only solves the issue of status removals that simply lower duration. You can't wait out a silence or wait for the target to walk back into range, you're just wasting time while people are probably taking potshots at you. By removing a bit the threat of status clearing it would make HSDW slightly less ABSOLUTELY MANDATORY if you want to use invocations, but it's doing it in a way that targets a specific option. Das bad and I don't think that's the direction we should be heading.


- It cannot be dispelled by most effects.
And this is the other half. I think Silence is fine if it requires a status inflict check and the person silenced is able to remove it, even if it has to be via item or cleansing effect. The invocation is still prevented but it came at a risk/has a counter and the caster is able to respond again shortly after.

Just removing the status effect that means you're invoking (or having HSDW up) is a little more BS. There is no counter play to this aside from hoping they stop doing it (bad strategy.)
In the end, I think being able to remove the status should be a valid alternative to Silence, but make it more costly, or have a cooldown, or make it so it can only happen under specific circumstances. So I'll say Kunai is at least targeting the right thing here.

Now I'll put my own recommendations in:

- Make it harder to remove the status effect of invoking
Do this by either adding cooldowns to all things that dispel effects on others, make them have requirements such as having prepared the dispel ahead of time in a status like Null Shell or make the dispels go through a status inflict chance (status unflict, I guess?) This recommendation is a bit sketchier since it's affecting things beyond the scope of just invocations but I feel it will still be healthy for the game in the long run. Future-proofing, we'll call it.

- Allow basic movement while invoking
After the nerf to Blink, it is now practically impossible to chase someone down if they're running away. Other movement options haven't really been touched upon yet and right now it is very easy to outpace someone with an invocation up. The mage gets 1 (one) chance to Blink and if they're still out of range (very possible), the invocation is now wasted since the runner isn't going to walk back into range. Commence potshots. Now the caster can wait for the status to wear off or they can cancel the invocation. Either way, they're left wondering why they bothered trying to use an invocation when they had the option of the aforementioned three non-invocation spells.

Basic movement will help alleviate this issue a little and will allow mages to actually interact with ground effects, something Dev has been moving toward. This will also push players more toward interactions with basic movement such as buffing beforehand or teleport movement boots, some of which get no love at all.

[Poruku]

I honestly think evoker is in the best state possible for invocations due to the existence of Lazarus wind and high speed divine words. You need to play around these abilities as an evoker.

Situation 1: You're really far from the enemy. You use high speed divine words. If they get closer you can unleash your invocation without a chance of failure.

Situation 2: You're at medium range, you cast invoke and pray you're going to be in range next turn. Your enemy kites. You blink closer or just cry. This is the time where you don't want to use your invocation, it's pointless. Just use normal spells.

Situation 3: You're in melee range with someone. You cast your invocation and they get knocked down. They have 4 momentum to stop you or run away, and even if they do, it's only a total loss of 3 momentum. If they don't, then you can unleash your invoke. Even if they run away, that just means you made some distance between yourself and the opponent. This doesn't work against martial artists of course, so just don't do this with martial artists.

All in all, seeing invocations in a vaccum like "just use 3 spells" doesn't address them in a fair light. I think each evoker invoke has its uses and can be very strong and worth the momentum if it's used in the right situation. I also think allowing people to use basic movement while invoking is fine but I really don't think it's needed.

What needs to be looked at imo is moreso the weak invocations like divine judgement and earthbound fog.

[Raigen.Convict]

Earthbound Fog feels like it should apply to anything that causes movement and not just basic movement.

[Autumn]

Earthbound Fog feels like it should apply to anything that causes movement and not just basic movement.

Sadly I think this would be a little overpowered, Earthbound Fog is mostly at it's strongest when basic movement is strong, and it can be strong through the restriction of Thunder Hooves and/or movement increases such as Talvyd or Western Wind.

Earthbound Fog has a greater effect on far reaching movement that is mostly accessible to soldiers and rogues, but less cumbersome to Duelists and martial artists, that's just the way of it. I feel as though to achieve the desired effect it would be more prudent for the user of EBF to pair it with a clumsy effect, given EBF's duration being so long.

[Snake]

Hrm...

What if Blink, if used while holding an Invocation, has no cooldown? This way it can let you at least chase an enemy. I wasn't looking from this perspective of a 'conditional use' of Invocation's only saving grace.

[The Alpha Bat]

What if Blink, if used while holding an Invocation, has no cooldown? This way it can let you at least chase an enemy. I wasn't looking from this perspective of a 'conditional use' of Invocation's only saving grace.

This would also work, allowing the usage of invocations without such a glaring weakness while still keeping Blink nerfed for those who just wanted to use it to cheese.