[Ray2064]

This thread will essentially be discussing Ghost's current balance - not that the class needs to be nerfed or buffed in any significant way, simply....adjusted.

See, there usually are two types of characters picking Ghost as a class :

A- Basic attackers who wish for a class to make better use of that archetype, usually only making use of Ghost for the passives and utility it and Duelist grant. (Fleur, Poise, Wraithguard, Claret Call, free RES/HP...)

There is nothing quite inherently wrong with that, and is quite the popular choice given the many combo of classes like Ghost/MG, Ghost/Monk , Ghost/Ranger , Ghost/Boxer , Ghost/VA or VA/Ghost, use the class for little more than the reasons aforementioned for good results, most of the time simply turning their class into Initial Class +. Good for'em.

B - Duelists with no real other choice.

Here's where the problem lies. Duelist's promotional structure makes it so Ghost will be the option by default if you dare picking something as odious as a REGULAR sword, or god forbid, an AXE.

A fencer character who doesn't quite use a katana will often be shoved into the class by default, due to being unable to make use of Duelist's two other promotions efficiently.

Let us look at Duelist's sword options.

- Sanguine Star : Costs 4 Momentum and therefore cannot fit into the structure of Fleur combos if you want to act thrice this turn.  Next.

- Ghastly Strike : Outright mediocre, with no real use outside of very specific conditions during teamfights. You usually will have no reason to ever use this over a plain basic attack, or... Anything else, really. Next.

- Blood Spike : Uses two easily resisted elements and drains 8% of your HP, though one of those is at least guaranteed to have decent scaling.
It's at least ranged, magic damage and applies Claret Call, though by the time your Rising Game Level is high enough for the spell to truly be good, using it will likely do more harm than good. Eh. Next.

- Scarlet Twister : Pretty good pulling tool, though suffers the same issue of easily being able to be resisted and therefore potentially breaking a Fleur combo. The fact it drains 1/10th of your HP doesn't help much.

Let's move on to the second weapon that Ghost advertises itself as a class of in theory - Axes.

With base Duelist offering no real offensive skills to Axes and Ghost at a first glance offering such a strong emphasis over those, it gotta make up for it, riiiiiiight ?
Wrong.

- Reaper Scythe : SWA based Skill, in a crescent. Costing moderately heavy FP. Great. Except not so much for a Weapon Type that mostly focuses on BASIC ATTACKING. Furthermore, the fact that you'd actually actively want to avoid using the Skill against a Guarding enemy, lest you wish to waste 20 Claret Call stacks to break a 1M Guard for one turn. Next.

- Cut Down : Stuffers from the same issue as Ghastly Strike where its only truly useful in specific team fights situation. Though in an actual 1v1 , well. Why would you want to actively consume your Claret Call stacks to inflict a reduction of their defenses for 3 rounds when the stacks would've increased your physical damage in the first place if you just kept basic attacking.

Dark Imbue : The dark bonus damage is essentially worthless due to not ignoring armor or DR, and while 15 hit is nice, the ridiculously low duration of 3 rounds essentially means you'll only use this when in an utter pinch.



Spells : Already defined in the Sword section.


Special mention to Ether Invitation also breaking the Fleur combos due to being 4M , though that applies to all weapons and is therefore not exclusively a problem for swords or axes.


Tldr, make Swords and Axes actually good for Ghosts.

[renowner]

My own thoughts:
I certainly agree that duelist often feels railroaded into ghost simply because firebird requires a spear and kensei requires a katana. Ghost is an extremely strong class however so it isn't often a big deal. But being able to actually choose from more than just one option would feel better. The same issue magic gunner basically has.

I do agree the spells hp drain should be lowered a bit. Or at least should be able to have a choice of passives like Shapeshifter does to lower the drain or not. Twister can do nutty things, but so can cyclone spear if you're talvyd enchanted.

I Think Dark imbue is honestly fine. I think Sanguine star could be reduced to 3 momentum for sure.

Reaper scythe is great. It doesn't remove claret calls unlike most things. . . It just makes them unmarkable until your next turn, which isn't a big deal. Its not a basic attack but its still pretty good.
Cut down and Ghastly strike I Think are also fine. Not everything has to be nutty.
And Ether Invitation costing 4m is healthy. Means using it requires choice and it usually becomes the only real thing you do that turn. Which is good. . Since it can easily hit several hundred to even a thousand damage or two when combined with excel weapons and criticals.

Something not mentioned here however is that dark gaze is absolutely terrible. It needs to not erase all of your claret calls. There is no reason to ever use it over EI or Last Chance. Never. Silence isn't even hard to remove for most races/classes these days.

[Snake]

I think with Arbalest changes, and proving that sub-types can be also used as flags for weapon skills, we can see Ghosts being able to use certain scythe polearms and swords if they ever come around in the future for their stuff.

But I agree with the following:

- Sanguine Star should be 3M but gain a cooldown.

- Ghastly Strike's gimmick is not really usable anymore. If anything, I'd make it so successfully hitting the enemy and activating the bonus effect will increase the duration of Fear/Hesitation/Flatfoot/Clumsy by 1 round, once per enemy.

- Cut Down should just not consume Claret Call and it will be fine. Maybe halve Claret Call on a target instead after applying its effects.

- Blood Spike and Scarlet Twister should both cost 10% of your maximum HP, but also gain Power equal to the HP consumed, so it doesn't end up meeting a lose-lose situation at times.

- Blood Spike in particular should gain a circle size, not range. Similar to Scarlet Twister, but being the option that doesn't unnecessarily move the enemy.

- Painproof should be changed from a boring conditional and OP damage reduction to:
> Consumes 20% of your maximum HP and grants Painproof LV(HP consumed * 1.5) for 2 rounds.
> Damage taken (after mitigation) is deduced from Painproof's LV instead of HP.
> If Painproof's LV reaches 0, the status will end and you will be inflicted with Stun and Knockdown.
> If Painproof expires due to duration, you will release a shockwave of blood, dealing evade and protection-ignoring Darkness and Water magic damage equal to LV and applying Claret Call LV X to enemies in 4 range of you. (X = Ghost LV/2)

[renowner]

Painproof thing sounds cool. Little scared to give it to ghost who already has wraithguard, but painproof as it currently exists does basically nothing with how defenses are scaled these days. And that does sound really cool.

[Fern]

- Painproof should be changed from a boring conditional and OP damage reduction to:
> Consumes 20% of your maximum HP and grants Painproof LV(HP consumed * 1.5) for 2 rounds.
> Damage taken (after mitigation) is deduced from Painproof's LV instead of HP.
> If Painproof's LV reaches 0, the status will end and you will be inflicted with Stun and Knockdown.
> If Painproof expires due to duration, you will release a shockwave of blood, dealing evade and protection-ignoring Darkness and Water magic damage equal to LV and applying Claret Call LV X to enemies in 4 range of you. (X = Ghost LV/2)

the painproof one sounds super sick

[PantherPrincess]

I think evade and protection ignoring is a little off the charts. I'd pick one or the other personally.

[Lolzytripd]

I think evade and protection ignoring is a little off the charts. I'd pick one or the other personally.

Its from the remaining level so it shouldn't be too big

My biggest chungus ghost would still have a hard time having much of a paniproof left after 2 rounds of beatdown.

[renowner]

well ghosts can hit 1500 health, so you'd be draining 300 health to get 450 barrier. . . The values would probably have to be skewed. that alongside wraithguard would just be kinda potentially cracked. But it may also be dispellable/stealable. The idea itself is really cool.