[polly]

I do not know if this is the appropriate place to post this - I was conflicted between posting it in Race/Class suggestions and here - but I ultimately decided that this would be the best spot - considering this is involving a (unreleased) official race.

With the recent release of Muridae within the Test Server, I was one of the many to hop on to try and test it out first thing first - however, I believe while the race boasts a really good stat line, it falls... kind of short in regards to racials. Other Kaels either have a proper stat buff from their respective instinct traits, or have other racials that serve as great utility and offers a different playstyle to experiment with... However, Muridae doesn't exactly have anything impressive. It falls flat in PvP - and really doesn't hold much for PvE either, sans the +5% drop rate.

It has Golden Eyes, a standard for Kaels, +10% lockpicking which is nice to save a talent point... I guess. +1 Mov is very nice. Flee chance... I guess can be nice?

I believe Something Shiny could have more uses/potential than it currently has. One of the Traits Muridae can take, Little Cheese does kind of lean towards something interesting. That being the +4 GUI/WIL buff as long as they are holding Something Shiny.

The biggest issue I see with the racials so far is...

Muridae Instinct's... odd design choice.
It sounds interesting on paper. On the start of a new round, you have a 5+(S.SAN*2)% chance to gain Something Shiny if you're standing besides or behind an opponent. The biggest problem with this is the fact that Muridae has 8 CEL base. Meaning that unless your opponent somehow builds more CEL than you (unlikely unless you go tank on a race not meant for tanking and your opponent is a dodge), you're basically never going to go second. The only way for this to ever happen is for you to single out an opponent in a fight that somehow goes after you... which, in fights where this cannot be done (i.e. 1v1s, anywhere where you go first[most of the time], etc.), that's not going to happen. The only way for you a new round to start with you besides or behind an opponent, is for you to skip your turn. Which... in return, the opponent can do as well, so that's not exactly an option.

All of that aside, Muridae have another glaring issue. So let's say you end up besides or behind an opponent. Cool. Here's the biggest issue;

You have to be facing them. Unless you are looking at your opponent, you're not going to proc your Instinct and gain your buff. Meaning that if you just somehow manage to move next to your opponent without facing them, you're not exactly going to gain anything...

... not like Something Shiny does anything in particular for non PvE encounters. The +5% drop rate is nice. Not groundbreaking, but it'd be dumb to scoff at it. It's nice. +5% Murai drop rate is really negligible when you only really get like 75 Murai / encounter. But apart from that... nothing, really.

Sure, at 50% or less HP, you get a chance to throw your Shiny at your opponent's face which... I... guess does 20 damage? Cool?
And then it... moves you behind them... facing away from them... so if they have enough momentum to attack again, you just... basically let them flank you for no reason in particular. I'd understand if this was supposed to be a downside to Muridae Instinct, but... Muridae Instinct holds little real upside apart from the +5% drop rates in a PvE. It doesn't even inflict any sort of debuff, it just... hits for negligible damage.


I believe Muridae's instincts are a great idea on paper, but I believe there's a lot left to be desired. Right now, they're just Felidae but without any kind of proper racial benefits (sans Golden Eyes).

I have a few suggestions in mind that could possibly help make Muridae stand out from the other Kael races without just... being a Felidae 2.0 - specifically expanding on the whole gimmick regarding Something Shiny. Do note that these are general suggestions - my intention is not to suggest giving all of these to Muridae.

• Muridae Instinct
  

An interesting take on their racial and the gimmick behind gaining Something Shiny would be turning Rats into glass cannons. Whilst other Kaels gain their bonus stat points from being on low health - Muridae could be the opposite. Upon gaining Something Shiny - they gain a buff to select stats (that being WIL, SKIL, GUI and CEL - can be changed as need be - doesn't have to be as strong as regular kael instinct buffs at low HP). For as long as they remain healthy and out of trouble, they keep their stat bonuses.

This would make the On Hit effect of Muridae Instinct a downside. Play smart and keep your health high - or risk losing your buffs entirely.

This should probably make it so your Scaled SAN decreases your chance to throw Something Shiny instead of increasing it. But then again, this would require the percentages to be played around with.

It could also be a buff to Little Cheese instead of an entire racial change... But that would require that Big Cheese gets something as equally valuable in return.

• Make Steal also activate Muridae Instinct (or a seperate Racial Trait that can be used)
  

Muridaes have synergy with Steal because of their Big Cheese trait. It would give rats a more 'active' way of gaining their passive instead of trying to end the round next to someone. Speaking of.

• Make it so you can steal facing opponents
  

While I understand why it would normally proc only from besides/behind opponents, from a balancing stand point - as previously mentioned - makes little sense. Could make it so there's a higher chance when behind/besides an opponent, and keep the chances low at front.

• (Possibly, uncertain) Make it so you don't need to face your opponent to proc Muridae Instinct
  

Could also make it a Racial trait for Muridae. They have tails - why not give them a work out and learn some expert thievery with them?

• (Possibly a trait) Give a use to the On Hit effect of Muridae Instinct?
  

Right now... you get hit (it does not negate the hit) - you deal miniscule damage - and you move behind your opponent, facing away from them - and let them flank you. Either make it so you move 2-3 tiles behind the opponent, or make the On-Hit effect inflict Blind the same way how Pocket Sand does. I believe a full-attack negation would be a bit too strong but... What do I know?


All in all, I believe Muridaes have a ton of potential - and I'm sure they're still in-testing, which is why I decided to make this thread with suggestions and my current concerns with the racials as a whole.
I'd love to hear the community's opinion on the race - and the changes suggested above. While the Race is very recent - and I think it's kind of... obvious that indepth testing was not done (I have made sure to test what I could in the test server with others), I think many can agree that Rats are currently lackluster.

This is my first ever thread (in general, but suggestions count as well), so I apologize for it's length. I just wanted to make sure that my thought process was easy to follow regarding my current concerns.

[Poruku]

Muridae lacks a racial that does something. I'm just hoping it isn't all the race gets, I know someone mentioned they were not finished. I think the instinct needs to be changed though, no reason to build SAN on them at the moment.

[Snake]

It's a race that is inherently kleptomaniac (which I disagree, because a race should be a base for roleplay, not define what you are from A to Z and force you to play the preset role), and easily scared.

Honestly? The SAN effects should be less balls to the walls dependent on SAN to proc. It should benefit somewhat from both CEL and LUC in each particular case. (When stealing, a mix of LUC and SAN. When fleeing, a mix of CEL and SAN.)

I haven't played the race yet, but even without that I can see that its current incarnation needs to be merely exclusive to traits, not what it is.

At best, rats should just excel on fleeing and being dodgy, at the trade of being durable. That was the general sensus of its original race suggestion, after all.

[Poruku]

I agree, it just makes little sense that SAN makes you better at stealing but only in that specific fashion. I think the chance should be flat or bases on cel/luc/gui and SAN should give some other bonus. I think stealing something shiny should be an active though not a passive.

[Lolzytripd]

San% to steal an additional status?

[renowner]

I think the race is pretty good personally. The racial that moves you behind the enemy and turns you to face them is probably just buggy. It should always proc regardless of facing them, and should turn you to face them afterwards as described. . .And that's pretty damn strong.

Inherently disliking the fact that they have to be kleptomaniacs I can also totally agree with, so some sort of trait they can purchase to turn that off in return for other benefits could also be nice. Unlike redtails who don't want to roleplay fortune cookies, they lack pretty much anything else besides those abilities.

[Snake]

I feel like you could easily have a 'Kleptomaniac Stance' toggle for this, with some bonuses and what-gives. This way you could at least not suddenly end up stealing something from someone in the middle of a dang spar because your race demands it.

[Maksimum_Fire]

I have to speak on Muridae. There's a wound in my soul after looking at the racial abilities.

Muridae Instinct should be Instinct(Muridae), to keep it in line with the three other instinct racials.

Other than that...

I think the race is pretty plain and simple not meant to be anything special. Specialized bases for those that want them, golden eyes(a good, but shared racial ability) and otherwise- low impact racials. Minimal mechanical distinction for the race, mainly meant to characterize them(even if very heavy handedly).

Some people want low impact from character race, and some don't want that, so that's all the commentary I have on Muridae.

Please fix Instinct(Muridae)'s skill name;;;