[MothEnthusiast]

Using any sort of multihit is downright suicide against anybody with Riposte. Each hit of a multihit can (and usually does) earn a Riposte 50% damage strike. Granted, this is only in melee range, but you really shouldn't be getting nuked to death by your own multihits.

Confirmed culprits:
Exgalfa (when casted with a melee weapon)
Needle (Priest; when casted with a melee weapon)
Rapid kick
Fist basic attacks

Needs testing, but probably would also do the same with:
Mad chop
Regenschuar (or however you spell it, from boxer)
Twin dance (the damage of the second hit is far lower than that of riposte, to boot)

Easiest solution is probably just to make Riposte once per target per turn. I'm getting very tired of having to run ghosthands just to not die to my own attacks because of what seems like an oversight.

[Autumn]

Some of these multihitting attacks have specific interactions with other items that make their multi hitting properties have legitimate utility, in the case of Rapid Kick we all already know how Bladed soles and ice point greaves interacts with it, and tbh it'd be boring if they didn't work that way.

So targeting Riposte is probably correct to do in this scenario, Riposte is a little strong and probably deserves a capped amount of counters either per turn or per target, if this is the case though I suggest it be bumped up to 75% damage instead of remaining at 50%

[caliaca]

Multi hits have a lot of good sides too. As a random example, they remove many dodge buffs that take values for 'per hit', and there's a considerable amount of these. I think if we're going to remove the downsides of these multi hits, we should remove their upsides too, but that'd be homongenization and I'm not a huge fan of that.

I probably wouldn't want a change in this just because having upsides and downsides is fine and interactive. There's plenty of counterplay for this- making hits not in melee range, ghost hands, attacking from behind, etc, where if you're just hitting straight into a riposter you're probably just not playing great.

[MothEnthusiast]

Except that 'playing these counters' really isn't a great option for a lot of these skills. There is no 'not using them in melee range' for a lot of these skills, and often times going behind someone to avoid dying to your own attack is a full action, bringing you down in action economy to not have to deal with someone getting literally up to 6-8 FREE 50% damage strikes. (While you're using a skill that does average damage because all of these examples are using normal damage calculations and just splitting the damage between those hits. Meanwhile, 300-400% damage coming back at you, albeit hitting against your defenses 6-8 times. Still a lot.)

Riposte is no investment on the user's end. It's just 'stand there, deal damage'. And it's a high % chance of activating, to boot. Nobody that runs riposte doesn't have skill, because of the skill tax. Sure there's 'counterplay', but the way of actually achieving this counterplay is far too demanding and it often means you're better off never using those skills against certain opponents.

Not to mention, even in the case of not using multi-hits, my point still stands if you think about it. Assuming we're equal in stats, if I don't waste a lot of momentum (or have one of the few easier ways to get behind you), you're getting 50% damage off on me for every hit I deal in melee. It's pretty strong.

[caliaca]

Its quite strong, but upsides should have downsides. Rapid kick certainly isn't doing average damage these days. Exgalfa and needle are really easy to not use in melee especially because Lazarus wind exists.

I don't think this is an oversight. Again, if we're gonna make this so limited we should make sure that multi hits don't have their bonuses too (multiple chances to crit for medium crit change, removing dodge buffs on the first x hits, applying on hits multiple times, and so on). It's a risk for the reward multi hits give.

[Lolzytripd]

summoner's tandem daggers proc a full riposte despite being a reduced basic attack that is quite spammable, you can as a joke, kill yourself very quickly vs a skeleton knight with it.

[MothEnthusiast]

On the note of exgalfa, that's ONLY if you waste an additional 3 momentum to prevent yourself from being in melee. Be it from High Speed Divine Words before invoking (which can't be done the same turn AS invoking) so that you can get the spell off with 6M, or using blink (thus back to my earlier point of straight up wasting 3M to not die to your own attack, as you can't use any 1m movement options without breaking the invocation) after casting, because even with lazarus wind, someone can get back to melee range rather easily (with damage; kagekiri, hanging, sidecut with some sort of range boost, the list goes on) before your next turn where you'd actually cast the spell. And with CM nerfed now, you aren't even doing respectable damage for the risk.

Quick Edit for additional context on the crit argument: The biggest offender in the 'multiple chances to crit' regard are guns, as they can have as many as 4 shots as opposed to fists' 2. And guess what-- they don't proc against riposte, even in melee range, because they're ranged weapons.

[Autumn]

The interaction itself where you get riposted this many times is not quite fair, but I wouldn't say that its something you should ever be subjecting yourself to in the first place, I think that a melee standing in your face should incur a downside of some kind, and if that downside is being unable to use combo skills that would otherwise kill them on the spot, then what's wrong with that? The only issue is when these multihits are melee ranged but to my knowledge only fist weaponry suffers from this (which, I think them proccing riposte twice isn't intended anyway).

As is the case with Rapid Kick, I prefer the benefits of it's multi-hitting nature over the downsides, so I attempt to be as wary as I can when utilizing it, I even turn it's likely chance to be riposted into an upside with the likes of Kagero for instance.

There's a lot of moving parts in the multi-hitting nature of these moves that would cause a massive upset/nerf if that were to be changed specifically, and I'd rather be aware of Riposte than to have that removed. Which is why I can agree with changing riposte, but honestly it can be worked around with so many things already like just moving out of the way or low momentum movement options, even rapid kick is fine with the likes of Crane Hop available to Verglas.

[Neus]

I'd like to know how you confirmed fist basic attacks, because multi-hit attacks such as that and guns should only trigger riposte once, as far as I know.

[MothEnthusiast]

I just had a friend grab a fist weapon and basic attack me in melee range with it on the test server. 2 procs of riposte happened, though strangely both happened after both hits of the fist weapon. (So it went fist, fist, riposte, riposte, instead of having the ripostes going between hits like with everything else.)

Edit: Give me a day or so and I'll run it through against just to be 100000% sure. Or someone else can, makes no difference to me.