[Rockabye]

As much as I disagree with using min-maxed builds for arguments, I do see how this could be a problem with tons of defense-stacking. With that in mind...

Damage penalty: (Evade over hit/2) - (Defense/3)% after modifiers.

Essentially what would happen is this. Let's say you have ridiculous amounts of evade and your opponent has 0% Hit on you. 30% damage reduction is the cap, so you'd be working with that. Now let's say you also (somehow) have 60 Defense on top of that. The damage reduction would be reduced by 20%, bringing your damage reduction from evade down to 10%. Coming into play after your defense reduces the damage ensures that attacks that would do damage will still do damage, rather than being reduced to 0's. This way it balances out for all builds.

[Neus]

There's always the (much more realistic) option of having some auto-hitting skills receive accuracy checks. Some, like Mad Chop, already display this behavior.

[Sawrock]

Have all autohits do an accuracy check. If they "hit", proceed as normal. If they "miss", they do half damage.

[Sarinpa1]

I suppose Sawrocks suggestion seems the best. (STILL NOT SUPPORTING THIS MUH AUTOHITS)


Also in what universe does having two defensive stats equal minmax. /eyes monk

[Flamesword1]

I really don't agree with this. Seeing that this would cripple both of the damage output of Monk, Verglas and some people who uses the Kensei autohits, not to also mention the soldier skills as well. Plus tack on WG. That's a full either 60% resist or following Sawrock's suggestion, a full 80% damage resist. You might as well give Cel people damage resistance towards autohits.

[Zakizo]

Flamesword1 » Fri Mar 27, 2015 11:55 pm[/url]"]I really don't agree with this. Seeing that this would cripple both of the damage output of Monk, Verglas and some people who uses the Kensei autohits, not to also mention the soldier skills as well. Plus tack on WG. That's a full either 60% resist or following Sawrock's suggestion, a full 80% damage resist. You might as well give Cel people damage resistance towards autohits.

If someone, as a class that relies on melee combat, has terrible accuracy and wants to constantly get away with having terrible accuracy with no drawback (and tons of plus'), then I think it's a case of bias and not a case of balance. Kensei have fantastic accuracy, and the damage of their auto-hits would not be lowered on targets that they had full accuracy on (see: most of them). Even if they didn't have 100% hit, the damage loss would not even be that noticeable unless A: Their damage was extremely high in the first place, or B: Their accuracy was extremely low for what they do.

That said, while I personally wouldn't mind the removal of auto-hit properties from melee attacks, I think that would actually be more crippling on melee classes than the suggested change... unless you were to go with Sawrock's idea, and make them do half damage if they "miss."

[Flamesword1]

Just a question then. Would this also affect include the dodge buffs into the equation? Plus not everyone (I mean most) has the skill nor hit to hit a person with 60+ Cel with the winds on them and or other evade buffs. Plus you only said the reasons why Kensei would be fine. What about Monk and Verglas? Even though Monk has the 40% skill growth it does not solve the fact that it needs other stats to make better or even playable (Looking at you Str, Will, Cel, and Def.). And Verglas aside from the MA hit boost, it offers nothing to hit to anything.

[Neus]

Sawrock » Fri Mar 27, 2015 5:04 pm[/url]"]Have all autohits do an accuracy check. If they "hit", proceed as normal. If they "miss", they do half damage.

This doesn't sound like a terrible idea. Reminds me of 'save for half damage' from PnP RPGs.

[Lolzytripd]

I haven't seen any numbers that prove dodge is not viable

if anything

make a saving throw vs aoe's for half damage based on evade.

Tone down autohits scaling, autohits exist to counter super dodge on classes that don't have spells or insane amount of hit boosters.

[Ranylyn]

Or, remove dodge entirely, and make evade a generic damage reduction stat, mitigated by enemy skill. 50 cel vs 30 skill = 20 less damage, etc?

Bad idea? Probably. But more fair than dodge being useless as it is against most classes now (Biggest exceptions are Arbalest and MG, ironically) or the go to godly defensive skill.