[Soapy]

Yet another Ingrain nerf thread.


It's a non-mitigable 180 difference in HP per enemy for the cost of 8 FP and 3M that can only be stopped by one of the rarest status effects in the game.

It's also completely unavoidable if the user happens to be slower than their opponent(s), which I already suggested changing but was ignored.


Ideas:

• a. Lower the range of Synthesis to 1.

• b. Lower the range of Synthesis to 2 and the drain to Level/3.

• c. Lower the drain of Synthesis to Level/4.

• d. Make it actually apply on the user's turn and not the start of a round.

don't ignore my post #420

[Ranylyn]

Not quite sure what you mean by Difference of 180 in HP (Unless you're calculating HP total per enemy over a 6 turn battle?)

As an avid fan of ingrain for PVE, I do agree it's a little too good. Suggestion D would still enable it to be counterable, while suggestion B would make it more tolerable to deal with.

[Kameron8]

As someone who incorporates ingrain as their main damage tool in a gimmicky tank build, there's a few points I can raise for this thread. Ingrain is just crazy polarized: it's useless on speedy people with low defensive stats, but backbreaking on tanks. It's (in most scenarios) subpar in one versus one, then suddenly god tier when you take on six things at once.

The reason it's so strong on tanks is because actually dealing 30 damage each round to a tank can be a struggle. Take that into account with the fact that most tanks can't hurt people very well, or hit things that move quick very well, and you zero in on one solution to both problems -- ingrain.

If the damage is nerfed but the healing isn't, it will still serve to make some tanks unstoppable. If both the damage and the healing are heavily nerfed, it simply won't be used (Guard would prevent more damage with 3 momentum than a 15 damage ingrain, for example). If the range is nerfed, you make dealing with the skill more tolerable for ranged classes, but leave most Melee builds up shit creek without a paddle just like before. There might be some magic number -- maybe even Level/3 -- that lets ingrain dance on the edge of balance, but I'm probably too biased to propose any changes to this skill given that I've only used it in an extremely overbearing way.

[LadyLightning]

Vampire BK / GS, ingrain and proceed to double-Life Drain until you need to re-ingrain. Kiiiinda OP.

[Sarinpa1]

I'd like to bring up what I thought was already implemented when Ingrain showed up, learning the hard way it isn't and suggested it already.

Ingrain is pretty much something that immobilizes you. I believe it shouldn't be a "you can't use movement". It should rather be, if you move, OR get moved, it cancels.
Frankly there are many movement skills and someone building around that isn't hampered by some silly immobilization. And it'd be a good way for people to counter ingrain. Just move them somehow. Sure, they can get threads, but those don't work againts aaall types of moving yer opponent.
I think it'd solve this problem (and also make it little more sensible)

[Lolzytripd]

If you die to someone using ingrain you deserved it, almost every class has a method to deal with an ingrain user.

Bk/tactician have Shinken as a method to attack, Va's can set up a bunch of void gates infront of the immobilized idiot, mages charge your nukes they aint dodging, kensei get them airborne and do shit, Engineer sets up turret or flamethrowers, Ghosts have their ranged attacks, rogues can steal ingrain, Monk has their movement , Verglas has ranged ice. Demonhunter is Demonhunter.

there is a spear that prevents healing,


You only lose when you get up close and attempt to spam attacks

[Sarinpa1]

I suggest you read my post, Lolzy, it might help clear up your confusion about how it works.

[Lolzytripd]

I'm sorry I forgot the immobolize status was a jerk, I'd suggest nerfing the status, Every knockback or movement attempt reducing 1 turn from it? I'm pretty sure every character would have a method of accomplishing this.

[Ranylyn]

Just pointing out:

Ingrain isn't the only source of Immobilize. If, for example, moving via anything that moves you (And, for example, a move like sidecut or heaven kick ending ingrain makes sense if you think of the momentum ripping your feet free of the roots) automatically ended the Immobilize Status, then people could exploit this to make Immobilize completely useless as a utility to Doriads (If the odds of entangling with Wild Grass were actually decent,) Corpse Hands, and Gorgons, as well as any future classes/mobs that may get immobilizing effects. If this were to happen, Ingrain would need to be changed to be it's own status independant of Immobilize, also preventing Synthesis from triggering when immobilized by other sources. A rather minor nitpick, to be sure, but it's worth considering.


All things considered:

I'm in favor of trying Sarinpa's idea. But making Ingrain it's own status instead of making Synthesis apply to Immobilize in general may be required if any more sources of Immobilize start popping up. I'm just addressing this now.