[Senna]

Okay!

I answer ya' post in the spoiler -

Yes, tanks do have that problem but it also the same thing with evasive. Sure, tanks can't simple "Oh I'm going to basic attack" and that's it but you have a lot of different classes that provide that for them. Not just duelist but many other classes, enchantments, give them the option to basic attack. Duelist is mostly used because fluer exist. With the new strength giving HP changes, people have been building a little less VIT and putting the points somewhere else to either improve their scaling if they're auto-hit or improve their hit chance if they're basic attack...Or if they're monsters, improve their vit so they can run a shit ton of crit evade. (But not getting GG but Fang instead)

It's not uncommon to see a tank doing +150-+200 damage an attack against evasive while the evasive build is struggling to do that amount in two hits...Worst if they're building crit evade? Well, you had a good run.

Yes, evasive does have some crit evade, but the massive difference between a tank getting hit from a basic attack from an evasive, if an evasive gets hit, they'll more likely take 300-500~ damage in total (That's saying if the first and second hits). Which means their ass is grass if the person is running certain enchantments. While a tank, though they'll get hit more often, it won't be anywhere close to that amount unless they're using rampage stacking or vorpal strike. AKA still a massive fighting chance.

Yes, we evasive does have cancer like Shaitan using QDs but that's a completely different beast that needs a rework.

You haven't seen hell until you realized someone is doing more damage than you are by a mile while they're reducing your damage by half. I've seen people who are evasive either get themselves deleted within the first two rounds or just can't compete damage wise.

As for the duelist situation: I've seen...So many tank duelist....I've deadass seeing more tank duelist than I see evasive duelist unless the evasive is using Hexer or a Dagger. They have been shown to do the same thing as someone building evade just without dodging. Firebird gives them hit chance, and if they're running the right enchantment (Like most basic attackers) then yes, they'll tank more and still out DPS. Ghost...We all know how strong ghost is, it's much stronger when you're a tank since resistance important for ghost. Kensei, give them a badge and watch as they delete people from the fight.

Cobra: That's a double-edged sword, cobra can work with you, and cobra can be the reason why you lost. You can cobra do the impossible, and you can cobra and take damage from the same attack three times--Removing you from the fight. It's playing with RNG, it isn't a be-all thing--It's not consistent. (Part of the reason why I start avoiding cobra). COBRA NEEDS BALANCING AND FIXING!

As for the other section: As far as I know, they can do the exact same thing. Tank Kensei using Oga, tank ghost using WG (Which is much worse than an evasive using it.). The only thing an evasive build has over tanks is the fact they have more 'int' than the tank, which can be a saving grace.

Other classes also run evasive but get dropped kicked because they're not ghost/DH, as you stated, yes.

BUT! This isn't a thread for Tanks vs. Evade else I'd probably be a much longer list. It's more the evade style is dying out because tanks are just as good and safer option since even if something bypass evades, knock you down, you won't suddenly tank a shit ton of damage. Sure, tanks have a Vorpal/Rampage problem but that also applies to evade as they can also get Vorpal and lost whatever def status they have with rampage.

Back on topic! Yes, they do need some form of defense but my only problem is, I don't like the idea of Dev going to each class to add Survivability to them, which not only evasive characters can still use, like WG. It's kinda the reason why I suggested the evasion adjustment, whereas someone that does build evades will have this survivability and won't have to worry about someone taking them out of a fight before they can do anything UNLESS the person also build a decent amount of hit then GG. I personally dislike the rock paper scissor thing because the paper is getting the bad end of the stick. I'm not saying evasion should be unbeatable, or anything, I'm saying they need SOME change to survive attacks without someone just saying 'Fuck it, I'll just go tank since I'll certainly get much better results than this'. Which I've seen too many times already.