01-11-2020, 02:56 AM
In regards to what Crixius said... In my opinion, while Ghost definitely needs some sort of adjustment, that's more a separate issue than anything. As for Demon Hunter, it's likely in part due to the tools I tend to use in general, but it honestly doesn't seem that oppressive a lot of the time. Status effects still go through, so all it takes is inflicting knockdown/blind/immobilize/evade reduction, or simply using a move that hits more than once, and having one or the other somewhere is pretty reasonable. This on top of the fact that Demon Hunter doesn't get any evade buffs by itself means that you're pretty likely to just get hit if you're not using a class with bonus evade.
But, I guess that's not quite the topic of this conversation either way.
As far as what Senna said, I do agree to an extent. At the moment, at least from what I've seen, people tend to make characters that deal excessive amounts of damage while still being fairly defensive. This would be fine normally, but... well, this does mean that autohits get progressively harder and harder to deal with for an evasive character. Evasion is meant to be better overall against basic attacks more than autohits, which I understand, but at the moment, autohits are commonplace, and basic attack reliant classes are relatively few. Ghost, Firebird, Black Knight, Arbalest, Magic Gunner, Bonder, and Void Assassin. 7 classes of 21, soon to be 22, that tend to use basic attacks frequently, and most of them have autohit options that people take often anyway, and the ones that don't tend to have an overwhelmingly high hit rate a decent amount of the time. Evade isn't much good when someone sees a 30% hit rate and immediately swaps to using autohits for the rest of the fight without really losing out on too much in most cases.
The character I tend to play the most is evasive. Said character can survive pretty well against most people, but as it turns out, that's not because of Evasion - they have elemental resistances and some slight boosts to defense and resistance on top of it, which helps them tank a fair deal of the damage in exchange for not having as much evade to work with. They still take more than the average tank in most cases, but it's enough to allow the character to stay on the field long enough to actually fight, at the very least. Which is all well and good, but when your options to last longer on the field become "defensive" or "evasive but with some defense anyways", that probably points to some sort of an issue.
That being said, I'm not 100% sure on the proposed suggestion? It does make some sense, having a sort of "super evade" against people that normally wouldn't have a chance of hitting you, though I'm a little concerned that it might move the balance too far back the other way instead, making evasive characters inherently better than tanks because they reduce damage just as much while outspeeding their opponents and having a pretty good chance at stopping basic attacks from doing anything. Maybe simply adjusting the numbers some would help with that, though.
One last thing that I will note, though, is that despite what I mentioned at the top, I do feel that both Ghost and Demon Hunter would need some changes in the future if this change was made. Demon Hunter right now is less troublesome to deal with because they have inherent counters that let you deal a lot of damage to someone relying on Cobra, but if autohits start dealing less damage to Demon Hunters on top of Cobra letting them dodge, it would likely end up making them a bit too powerful. That said, it's probably better to change the system overall instead of trying to make sure half or so of the 21-22 classes have some form of defensive option, especially when evade buffs are meant to be some classes' defensive options.
But, I guess that's not quite the topic of this conversation either way.
As far as what Senna said, I do agree to an extent. At the moment, at least from what I've seen, people tend to make characters that deal excessive amounts of damage while still being fairly defensive. This would be fine normally, but... well, this does mean that autohits get progressively harder and harder to deal with for an evasive character. Evasion is meant to be better overall against basic attacks more than autohits, which I understand, but at the moment, autohits are commonplace, and basic attack reliant classes are relatively few. Ghost, Firebird, Black Knight, Arbalest, Magic Gunner, Bonder, and Void Assassin. 7 classes of 21, soon to be 22, that tend to use basic attacks frequently, and most of them have autohit options that people take often anyway, and the ones that don't tend to have an overwhelmingly high hit rate a decent amount of the time. Evade isn't much good when someone sees a 30% hit rate and immediately swaps to using autohits for the rest of the fight without really losing out on too much in most cases.
The character I tend to play the most is evasive. Said character can survive pretty well against most people, but as it turns out, that's not because of Evasion - they have elemental resistances and some slight boosts to defense and resistance on top of it, which helps them tank a fair deal of the damage in exchange for not having as much evade to work with. They still take more than the average tank in most cases, but it's enough to allow the character to stay on the field long enough to actually fight, at the very least. Which is all well and good, but when your options to last longer on the field become "defensive" or "evasive but with some defense anyways", that probably points to some sort of an issue.
That being said, I'm not 100% sure on the proposed suggestion? It does make some sense, having a sort of "super evade" against people that normally wouldn't have a chance of hitting you, though I'm a little concerned that it might move the balance too far back the other way instead, making evasive characters inherently better than tanks because they reduce damage just as much while outspeeding their opponents and having a pretty good chance at stopping basic attacks from doing anything. Maybe simply adjusting the numbers some would help with that, though.
One last thing that I will note, though, is that despite what I mentioned at the top, I do feel that both Ghost and Demon Hunter would need some changes in the future if this change was made. Demon Hunter right now is less troublesome to deal with because they have inherent counters that let you deal a lot of damage to someone relying on Cobra, but if autohits start dealing less damage to Demon Hunters on top of Cobra letting them dodge, it would likely end up making them a bit too powerful. That said, it's probably better to change the system overall instead of trying to make sure half or so of the 21-22 classes have some form of defensive option, especially when evade buffs are meant to be some classes' defensive options.
