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The Flaws and Benefits of Version 2.49
#42
(09-03-2021, 11:07 PM)Shujin Wrote: Yeah I can see how its not fun to play with or against. Even if the balance is 'fair'

Maybe just:
-Remove full evasion
-Keep two rolls, however change how it works:
    -1st roll If hit=No second roll, you hit.
    -1st roll a miss, second roll a hit= Old system 30%DR
    -2misses 50 or 60% DR
-Effect still apply, maybe at reduced rate at two misses
-Change how Evasion ignoreing skills work, in the way that they get a garunteed 2ed roll hit. (so max damage reduction is 30% on those)

*shrug* obviously still needs to revisit the actual hit versus evade numbers but this way hit chance is "true" and only really high dodgers get the second (Since its the same probability thing we have right now only backwards) dodge as a extra.

I think that be still an improvement to the old system, while not being as opressive and one sided as the current.
This is one of the propositions I like most. I'd propose somewhat different numbers (with a few additions that I envision could accompany it) though:
 
-I think the second miss should instead be 70% reduction on dodge.
-If the 1st roll is a miss and you are attempting a status infliction, your status infliction is cut in half for that check. (I.E, 180 infliction is treated as 90. Keep in mind this still goes against the status resist of the target- so that's not as high as it seems even if they only have FAI/SAN from APT!)
-Basic attacks are no longer able to Glancing. (Personally I think they should've never been able to, to begin with tbh)
-DEF/RES are back up to full point effectiveness from before, +1 per scaled, not 0.9.
-CEL should give 2.5 evade per 1 scaled instead of 2 if all Hit/Evade numbers currently in-game are kept as they are.
-Revert Blind to how it functioned previously.
 
I believe that this way, dodge retains its nature of "high risk high reward" since you're constantly playing with the dice when people are trying to hit you and will still have a major advantage when they've completely forgotten hit rate, but not to the point that you absolutely invalidate their build's usefulness, keeping the gameplay more entertaining for both ends.
 
The reason I suggest 70% DR on 2nd Miss accompanied by DEF/RES being brought back up to 1 per scaled is because I'm certain people would still focus on hit rate stacking as they do in live because there's usually no reason to worry about tanks. The 0.9 per point change, accompanied by the Weapon Scaling increases, has made them pretty squishy to the point usually only a Black Knight or Ghost tank is considered threatening. There's no need to worry about something you can just magic burst or blow up in a few crits nearly as fast as you would a dodge character. You would imagine hyper-focusing on hit stacking would cripple your damage against ""tank"" characters, but due to the 0.9 DEF/RES changes being accompanied by the Weapon Scaling ones, you can consistently hit people very hard don't really have to fear that potential downside unless it's SPECIFICALLY a Black Knight or Ghost. So you don't really lose anything that truly matters for doing this, in a lot of cases. Which I figure is another part of why most people are only really doing hit stacking builds.
 
So, by making both defensive archetypes very threatening in a simultaneous manner, I feel that we wouldn't have to deal with the loop cycle of "this defensive archetype is still much better than the other" because there'd be big reasons to worry about both sides of the spectrum, while also enabling more build diversity since you don't have to worry about your character being entirely useless if you don't stack massive amounts of hit rate. Sure, you'll be at disadvantage, but not "nothing I do matters" levels of disadvantage.
 
This means people would be able to build no SKI, high reduction doomwalls once again. But keep in mind that, in this context, for doing so they lose out on a lot of damage against people stacking evade, and would have very low chances at status inflictions. This means that Evade would have an advantage against people not stacking hit rate, which in my opinion is the ideal version of it rather than "they auto-win all the time." If we continue with the system as is, we'll just go back to the old dance of "one defensive type is much better than the other" and thus the core issue would've pretty much never changed. It hasn't changed.
 
Critical Hits, as a domino effect of the weapon scaling changes, have obtained more meaningful damage than before. Basic attacks would not be utterly crippled against Evade characters if they lost their ability to glancing, due to the reason that when they do score a clean hit, they will hit hard. By bringing DEF/RES back up to 1 instead of 0.9, this also means that Evade characters will not die as fast as they currently do in live due to the natural DEF/RES they'd be getting from APT. They would still have reason to fear getting hit, but it won't always be "I take 2 clean hits and I die" and it would be more like "if I take 3-5 clean hits I might die" just like before the rework.
  
Obviously, basic attacks should still be fully dodgeable. And I feel that in this context, basic attacks would be the most rewarding option (when it works) to deal against evade characters while not being the only accessible one.
 
This is not a particularly mega perfect balance, but I feel it could provide more engaging gameplay than what we have right now. If anyone has adjustment ideas for it or completely disagrees with it, or anything like that - feel free to contribute. I'm aware that this opens up the potential for dodge tanks, but I feel that if we just worry about that and never consider anything like this for that reason, we'll never go anywhere.
 
TL;DR of what I imagine this would accomplish, if it included these suggestions:
-Evade is no longer unfun to play or fight against.
-Tanking regains its identity of "safer play" while being at more risk of on hits and status inflictions, since Evade would still be capable of "dodging" those.
-Tanking characters are no longer locked to BK or Ghost in order to carry out their identity (since as it is it doesn't matter if someone has 60 scaled def or res, you're still blowing them up unless they run one of those two. So right now it's not really "safe.")
-Due to evade and tanking both being around the same levels of threatening on paper, people wouldn't feel forced to flock to one counter-play, thus giving more feeling of build freedom and diversity while also making more setups functional/making the gimmicky character setups from before the rework potentially work again. (Since the system as is encourages you to metafy your build rather than do something befitting of your character in most of the cases.)
-Evasion ignoring remains potent, but not a forced go-to, or something that would instantly invalidate Evade characters.
-Blind is no longer a broken status that's easy to abuse.
-We return to the moderate levels of Rock Paper Scissors we had before, rather than the extremist levels we got right now.
-i recover some of my sanity when preparing events
  
I tried to explain this to the best of my ability and I hope it makes sense/provides perspective. I think Shujin's suggestion is a good start.
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RE: The Flaws and Benefits of Version 2.49 - by Fern - 09-05-2021, 07:51 PM

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