[Entropy]

(Please don't stab me in my sleep for trying to murder the only good shield)

There's a dozen and a half more cases of this specific effect that I'm passing up, but the point of this is Thorns.

Passive damage dealt back to your opponent for hitting you, often a frustrating topic when it comes to PVP due to how little engagement it brings to the table. Your crime is hitting me with any source of damage. The penalty is death.

The most egregious of these examples is the types of thorns that activate on all damage directly dealt, not just basic attacks. Fang-Face, Armor of Nails, Frosttouch Gi if you're being really thorough. Bellplate from ranged weapon as well, including tomes!

While there is counterplay to this, such as the Ghosthands slot for your offhand, oftentimes a build simply can't afford to take such luxuries just to handle this type of game plan. Especially when Thorns can come primarily from items, with little investment needed in stats or your actual class combo even.

I'd like this thread to shine a light on this specific avenue of 'doomwalling', which is often less being tanky and more just free damage for existing at someone. Perhaps with some suggestions for how to address this issue, or for specific cases that don't need to be necessarily 'dealt with'. (Enchant Shield comes to mind as 'fair' thorns.)

I'll start with my proposed change to Fang-Face in particular, possibly the most obviously egregious item, dealing 24 unstoppable pierce damage (at max UL) on every single love tap provided you 1m guard with the damn thing.

-UL% Pierce resist to enemies.

Bash deals UL x 2 pierce damage, unmitigable.

Charge Bash inflicts Lingering Wounds LvL UL x 2.

I feel a 'bash shield' would still fit with this item's identity, without being nearly as annoyingly painful to fight.