[Dezark]

I'm gonna go through a bit here since I want to just give a little push to previous matters I said after reading the recent responses on this..


By no means mind you, do I agree or disagree with things but that also coming from a mindset of ''if you fuck up on this that on you'' sort of thing, it something I've been told for both situations in games I've played, RPs I've done, even jobs before that I've been dumped with in the past have been something similar to that; so when I see someone get banned I don't enjoy the fact it happened, or how it done specifically; but I've also played a part in bans in the past few years, where most of it is just me informing a GM in GM-Help when something happened, or brought it to a GM attention when we get the occasional hyper troll; it a usual that happens and such.


On the regard of little to no communication given, and the following of what was said by Plunger in response to that.--

In the regard of "I know this person oocly so it doesn't seem fair" isn't quite the case I would go with it.. but I can understand how it might come across on this, I will say typically GMs have a normal sense of regard where "you know what you did, that why this happened." which as I mentioned earlier is a "if you fuck up on this that on you" type of response, and that isn't great. Now I'm not saying "oh who reported me? I want to know who did this so I can compare what was said and tell you why they're wrong" or go after someone; obviously that not the answer to this. My honest to god suggestion and hope for GMs to consider, is just doing a check up in the higher up channels with the leaders, like I said in my larger post after the GM's address to the banned had dropped after a number of days for them to get it out. I was in even in a VC with balthie and another who was affected by it discussing things and hearing what they could say for answers to questions other had on that, there wasn't any intention of bad blood or otherwise, but the factor came in still of the lack of communication being a major key.

My suggestion that I hope will at least be considered on the side as a thought is, have a GM (or GMs) bring said person into a DM/DM group and just talk with them; let them know "hey this is what happened, we saw this going on in ----- server or we were given stuff that followed ----- being said and we've been keeping updates following that. Just go over the bans and help them find some clearance on what happened, so they can honestly say "okay I understand" and if they wish to do a ban appeal, it can be addressed from there. If the ban appeal denied, that happens; but the purpose following the ban is for someone to acknowledge what they did wrong, sit down and accept that. Even if it takes a few days before coming back to ask for another chance and show they do accept what happened, they acknowledge it, etc.

Now onto the lesser notes, mainly what drove me to give some response on things here specifically from Plunger...

Plunger

1: Little to no communication with the accused
Based on the fact every banned player was confused and made a ban appeal, it's safe to assume the GM team did not reach out to them to get their side of the story. And based on the fact Lumi and Aegis got banned, we can assume they didn't get the full story due to this. This is unfair to the accused because it means the evidence gathered will be entirely in the favor of the accuser. Not only that, but it also means they will get no warnings and thus have no opportunity to rectify their behavior. Even worse, they'll get suddenly banned mid-rp, having the rug pulled out from under their feet. A very stressful and confusing moment.

I think it's important to remember that just because you know someone OOC'ly does not mean you know what goes on behind closed doors and I don't really see what kind of information could have been conveyed to or given by the accused that wouldn't immediately set off red flags as to who reported or was targeted in this case. As soon as you ask them what they were saying about Blank then it looks like Blank reported them, end of story. It shouldn't be on the victim of harassment to just grin and bear it because the harassers feel it is unfair.
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To this, I addressed mainly saying that I don't think it the matter of knowing someone OOC'ly to the factor more so that there was indeed a lack of addressing to this specifically; it a issue that been brought up before and that alot did voice suggestions so that things could be worked out a bit better, though they're just that still; suggestions & food for thought. The matter of "if you ask them what they were saying about --- then it looks like --- reported them" is again something mentioned, obviously they can't give that given how people can be with that, and it not the case of the "victim of harassment" having to bear with it as Polk was saying, more that the people struck with this ban were sudden, and caught in a sudden crossfire as it can be seen, rather than saying "x has to deal with what y doing to them" it more that "x took it to GMs and whatever else was with that, got y smacked without any actual talk beforehand." sort of situation, for how they're mentioning it I believe.

Plunger

2: Whoever talks to the GMs first has the advantage
Related to point 1, a big issue here is that the GMs are clearly weaponizable. I'm not saying that the accuser had bad intentions, but what I'm saying is that whenever there is an OOC conflict, whoever messages the GMs gets an advantage as they can feed any evidence they see fit to the team and nobody on the opposing side will know. This, in my opinion, is not a very healthy part of a community, as it means the GMs aren't being used to solve issues, they're being used to ban. So when you reach out to a GM, you're going with the nuclear option, and you better strike first as it gives you the high ground. This brings me to the last point.

This one seems pretty simple to me. If you don't want to be banned for OOC conflict, harassment, insults, etc. don't participate in that behavior? No one is forcing anyone Out of Character to harass people or insult them and assuming that someone reporting that behavior is also at fault is essentially victim blaming.
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As someone who been on the regard of OOC conflict, harassment, insults, etc. and seen them second hand/left voice chats with people who've specifically gone off on this regard multiple times. It not something as simple as "don't participate in that behavior" to put it bluntly. You could do absolutely nothing, and still be blamed for that, purely by association cause x happened to say something to y, or just have a second hand agreement with x view toward y adding onto that. I know alot specifically who fit that grouping more so in the previously mentioned on this. Again I don't believe there any sense of claiming "victim blaming" here, this is the case I have seen from others who been caught in a ban before as well; where when one person has gone to a GM with something against them, and than the reporter gives issue to the reported and than is brought to the GM for that; they have been given shit in response or given harsher responses for reporting said person. I'm not saying it right for either side, or to blame x for y on that mind you, I'm just making this clear to that statement specifically.

Plunger

3: Bans based on OOC drama are counter-productive
What was even accomplished with these bans? Massive confusion, frustration, stress, disruption of events in game, increase of hostility between players, and the player base being left to speculate. A one week ban without a proper explanation and reached understanding beforehand is essentially pointless unless your goal is to completely kick out some people from the game and never have to deal with them again. Because these people will just come back after one week and guess what, everything is worse now because people are scared, they feel antagonized, they still feel confused, they wonder if they should even continue playing.

If they antagonized, confused, or like they should quit over this imagine how the actual victims of harassment or abuse feel.

It's section one of the official rules for the game:

https://neus-projects.net/wiki/index.php/Game_Rules

And in my opinion the most obvious use of the rules beyond cheating. What else are you meant to do to curb OOC drama if not ban them? It's meant to be a punishment, they should feel punished when it comes down on them so they can learn that actions have consequences. If OOC drama is allowed to simply run rampant in the community then it'll only get more toxic and that toxicity will become more and more public facing.
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Alright so I'm gonna keep this limited but just go to the regard of "victim of harassment or abuse" and "victim blaming" is used a lot in a regard that mind you, I can understand how both sides feel for this. It not fun specifically, but let me state; that in response of "What else are you meant to do curb OOC drama if not ban them?" is many things, I have heard from GMs specifically saying they're trying to NOT use banning as the only answer to this matter. 

What the answer of "oh well they got banned for this and now they're back" really does is open up people to repeat that same thing to them, to talk shit, proclaim that they will do x,y or z, or otherwise at them as others had done. I know many who still do it, who still give them shit or otherwise over just working with them, or those in the buddy group with said person who've said "yeah fuck them let's kill them off!" and those people know who they are. The answer to this whole matter, isn't "well so and so got justice so fuck them!" it only continues into worse things. TCBlade is my big example for this both cause I know the associated following this response was left in the dark on some things or told otherwise by others, and given what final following of "if you don't do ---- I will sue ----- for everything" speaks enough on that that the shit I've heard from the associated following to that point, shows plenty.

I'm not saying people who were banned, permabanned, muted, whatever can't do better; what I'm saying is the idea behind the response gives fruit and feeling to what others follow and shit on specifically for that, and that isn't something we need or should encourage. Yes the people who got banned were given that as a punishment, if they don't know what even lead to it, no they're not going to learn. No I don't think we should give them straight logs showing x,y,z said this as people know how others type by this point, or what emojis, etc. they use. What I think is as I mentioned, that personal talks should be held with the people so they can voice their defenses in private, rather than putting it up for others to see personally, modmail exists in the SL2 General Discord to allow players to contact GMs on that, and I think having something as a encouragement for private appeals would be good on that so that any GM can give a proper response following it. If it happens, or not is completely up to Dev and GMs and is just my two cents in the end.

For the sake of clarity, this just my opinions and thoughts to the response given, feel free to take this as a grain of salt on that, as that what I do otherwise to others in return, I'm not going to sugar coat or take sides with things as I typically prefer to keep a neutral viewing on how people handle and approach things in the end; and will ultimately voice either my agreement, disapproval or middle ground to thoughts as I go.

Take this all as you will honestly, if there any disappoint, anger, unhappiness, etc. otherwise to this? That's fine; if you need a video to help cheer you up and lighten that anger, unhappiness, disappointment, etc. feel free to hit me up on Discord and I'll give you a cute animal video I watch for such myself, and if you'd prefer instead to just hold those emotions toward me.. than your not the first and I hope your day gets better at some point.