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With a heavy Boneheart
#20
(11-06-2023, 10:16 PM)MothEnthusiast Wrote: ... Why is the baseline that you SHOULD be getting an extra action over everyone else every turn? Action economy is the strongest thing in any game like this. You should be fighting tooth and nail to GET that boost, we shouldn't be fighting tooth and nail to PREVENT you from getting that boost. Which begs the question... What baseline of crit should reasonable investment on both sides end up being? 60%? 80%? Or would you have it that investment on both sides ends up with 100% crit rate?

Why is a 78% chance to crit considered an 'only' in this case? That's a LOT. Even in a non-duelist case, hitting the crit twice for an extra action has a 60.84% chance of happening in those two hits. That's, at a baseline of 2 hits, 60+% chance of getting a free action if they don't put points into crit evade. Not counting fleur, not counting extra hits from rogue baseclass, not counting if they simply buffed up at the beginning of the fight, and certainly not counting the fact that crits are some of the highest damage sources you can get if you build for them correctly. (Quick edit, I didn't really account for APT-base that anyone would have for crit evade innately, but it still wouldn't be very much without investment.)

If you get 40 FAI or LUC (post apt), boneheart, and the APT bonus, you're only looking at 75-80ish crit evade. That's INVESTMENT versus ZERO INVESTMENT stat-wise to achieve this. When you start accounting for investment vs investment, and active crit bonuses that can be applied in a fight, you're easily pushing into 50+% chance. Even a NERFED northern wind completely nullifies boneheart in 3m, for 6 rounds.

Friend if you're using BIG HEAVY capitalization to deliver a point, it serves nothing but to deliver pointless aggression.

Why is a 78% chance to crit considered an 'only' in this case?
Critical builds heavily rely on the third action for a majority of the damage they deal and it heavily impacts their positioning after the damage. This archetype inherently needs a decent chunk of stat investment unless you have critical buffs/weapons with heavy crit to afford it; so a large chunk of that third action often goes to positioning or more damage. Non-Crits are 100% SWA, A physical skill is often 140% SWA for less investment, not to mention mages often have 100% SWA + an elemental attack.

Keep in mind that missing a crit is a ridiculous amount of damage lost against a generic hyper tank sporting a body guard due to armor applying at the end of calculations. Though, on that note; guess which equipment item that goes on your hand or boot slot provides more CEvade and armor at the same time? Food for thought.

Even in a non-duelist case, hitting the crit twice for an extra action has a 60.84% chance of happening in those two hits. 
In that example, the 78% crit chance is not accounting for your opponent's CEvade from APT; this would actually be more of a 33% chance (actually less in most cases!), discounting the mobility needed to deliver these two hits without twin dance/akimbo or a high range weapon. 

On the matter of it being less in most cases, an Imperialist with 50 APT is going to have 20 CEvade as a baseline.

Why is the baseline that you SHOULD be getting an extra action over everyone else every turn?
It's a bit odd to extrapolate something I've never said, but there should be a reasonably decent chance that a critical build can critical someone with similar investment.

If you get 40 FAI or LUC (post apt), boneheart, and the APT bonus, you're only looking at 75-80ish crit evade.
Against most builds without the presence of heavy critical amps, this puts the playing field against average crit joe from a range of 40% crit chance to 60% crit chance with similar investment. Weapon choice, hand slot choice, RoT+ and what not being a factor on the critical builds side. Your example is only factoring in a torso + boneheart and equal stat investment to an average critical build to achieve this, while most critical builds without buffs are going to be in this range. Can a critical build go way above this? Absolutely, but in that same regard you're also forcing them to use a buff and thus waste momentum unless they do it with spacing.

 and certainly not counting the fact that crits are some of the highest damage sources you can get if you build for them correctly.
I agree, criticals tend to be one of the highest numbers in the game, but the over generalizing nature of this statement is a tad concerning. Some weapon types/classes absolutely excel with critical hits should they land them. (Hell's Beating, GUI weapons are prominent examples)

you're easily pushing into 50+% chance. Even a NERFED northern wind completely nullifies boneheart in 3m, for 6 rounds.
Rogues' are one of the classes that can reach pretty high crit rates, yeah. Northern Wind is extremely potent and allows you to overcome the difference in CEvade quite well. Not every class has access to these buffs and northern wind only gains enough crit to null boneheart when done from the north. Does it last a bit too long? A little, but forcing someone to spend 3m on a buff can be circumstantially pretty valuable; even if it's typically done at battle start when everyone is spaced out.
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Messages In This Thread
With a heavy Boneheart - by Autumn - 11-04-2023, 05:03 PM
RE: With a heavy Boneheart - by Snake - 11-04-2023, 07:15 PM
RE: With a heavy Boneheart - by Ray2064 - 11-04-2023, 07:49 PM
RE: With a heavy Boneheart - by Miller - 11-04-2023, 08:34 PM
RE: With a heavy Boneheart - by Autumn - 11-04-2023, 08:53 PM
RE: With a heavy Boneheart - by MothEnthusiast - 11-05-2023, 06:06 AM
RE: With a heavy Boneheart - by Autumn - 11-05-2023, 08:18 AM
RE: With a heavy Boneheart - by MothEnthusiast - 11-05-2023, 08:48 AM
RE: With a heavy Boneheart - by Lolzytripd - 11-05-2023, 10:28 AM
RE: With a heavy Boneheart - by Trexmaster - 11-06-2023, 01:30 AM
RE: With a heavy Boneheart - by Kameron8 - 11-06-2023, 04:54 AM
RE: With a heavy Boneheart - by Trexmaster - 11-06-2023, 07:03 AM
RE: With a heavy Boneheart - by Senna - 11-06-2023, 07:44 AM
RE: With a heavy Boneheart - by Ray2064 - 11-06-2023, 08:30 AM
RE: With a heavy Boneheart - by MothEnthusiast - 11-06-2023, 09:31 AM
RE: With a heavy Boneheart - by Autumn - 11-06-2023, 08:23 PM
RE: With a heavy Boneheart - by caliaca - 11-07-2023, 05:12 AM
RE: With a heavy Boneheart - by MothEnthusiast - 11-06-2023, 08:42 PM
RE: With a heavy Boneheart - by Miller - 11-06-2023, 09:09 PM
RE: With a heavy Boneheart - by MothEnthusiast - 11-06-2023, 10:16 PM
RE: With a heavy Boneheart - by Miller - 11-07-2023, 01:26 AM
RE: With a heavy Boneheart - by Ray2064 - 11-07-2023, 04:28 AM
RE: With a heavy Boneheart - by Rendar - 11-07-2023, 01:53 AM
RE: With a heavy Boneheart - by Miller - 11-07-2023, 02:03 AM
RE: With a heavy Boneheart - by Poruku - 11-07-2023, 05:15 PM
RE: With a heavy Boneheart - by Snake - 11-10-2023, 02:44 AM

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