[MothEnthusiast]

After a long break from the game, I have returned. My hatred for healing spurred a looc conversation, and reminded me of this thread, and I come back to see... a lot of aggression towards me and others in this thread. Fun! I'm going to shamelessly necro this thread because I feel the problem is very important.

Let's break this down, because to say that a pretty lukewarm take is 'uneducated' and that the problem I'm talking about 'doesn't exist' is insane to me.

Pack a interference, black bubble, silence, hell - Dark water vial their ass.

Going to talk specifically about dark water here. Dark water vial? Walk out of it. 1M move out of it. Hell, slap down a sanctuary and it's not even an option. There's too much counterplay to the supposed counterplay. It might help if you're lucky, but generally it won't be enough.

In the olden days of olde, healers received a """"""healthy"""""" loads of nerf over the years.

Just because it's been nerfed doesn't mean it's balanced now. Simple as.

- All healing spells were granted cooldown compared to previous iterations where they did not have cooldowns originally.

Cooldowns don't mean a whole lot when you can rotate through 3+ healing spells, which is why Priest was the first thing mentioned in my original post. You combine that with another class with multiple heals, and you can pop off 200+ heals per turn without pause if you really want (or need, which you likely won't) to.

- Mass rescue on paper may look overpowered, but when you realize that priest have grouped all his buddies on him, that if you have slight bit of braincell, you could AOE-dump on that location right there and then to inflict even bigger damage than the heals done. Bear in mind the healers had to spend 1 momentum to prepare mass, 3 momentum to rescue, and then 3 final momentum to cast a graft spell. Generally these healers tend to be 350~ per party-member. If your friends have AOE. They could drop two AOE on the stacked group, and they would've dealt more damage than the healer originally did barring that if none of them are DR-doom wall... Which is a thread of it's own (Bodyguard moment)

The AoE argument is all nice and good until you remember that the turns are staggered. Ally, opponent, ally, opponent. One person will get all of the people with their AoEs, and that's assuming the next in line is in range with both actions if they want ANY chance of overcoming that healing. By the time the second opponent rolls around to do damage, the positioning can look very different.

Healers didn't need a nerf. What you need is a better party composition that have someone with interference. What kind of psychopath don't pack interference for healers who surprisingly isn't running a LB Quetzal to prevent interference? Hell. if you wanna make healers easier to deal with. Then take away Quetzal's interference prevention, and you might be surprised how easily healers would fold.

Never in my life will you get me to accept statuses as scattered as interference to be a PROPER counter to healers. As a Hexer Papilion with 60+ scaled will and skill, I had 20ish inflict against a healer at one point. The best odds I could've had build-wise, and I had a 1/5th chance of actually getting the effect that could stop them. That's not accounting for the fact that the spell in hexer that gives interference uses a stat that most hexers won't be running. Now consider other classes. BK? Will-running BKs are fairly rare. Status infliction chance. Evoker? Infliction chance. Fact of the matter is, a solid chunk of healers aren't going to be affected by anyone but the best of the best of infliction chances. It's not a real counter with how inaccessible it is in practice.

Cantus of Consideration is not very good heal. It's flat 100 with additional 25 per every song buff. This includes Cantus of Consideration so bare minimum is always 125. But it's not exactly good as graft plus this is on six cooldown round. SIX. BLOODY. COOLDOWN ROUND.
SIX -
WHOLE
FUCKING
ROUNDS!

I just included this skill for the sake of contrast to classes with ZERO heals, and to illustrate the point I was making about rotating heals. The skill itself isn't much compared to other heals, but it's far from useless.

In fact the posters' entire complaint include dancers -  Dancers aren't a healing class - they're a DAMAGE class with Rest Beat and Idol Steps which is more of self-heal than actual healing for everyone else. Everyone knows Dancers are annoying but if there's ONE benefit to fighting dancers - they can't hit a side of the barn if they tried!

You could split Idol Step into 4 separate skills and they'd all be at least situationally useful. A damage skill, a healing skill, a 25% charm, and a wear-out to drain them heavily of their FP. I'm not taking further comments on Dancer's woes until it's nerfed, thank you. Also just here for further contrast between the 'has healing' and 'has no healing' camps.

Why are you trying to nerf when there's plenty of methods to counter them? Maybe you should consider fixing your party composition.

Party composition? What about 1v1s, where the problem is just as severe? What about when classes don't have access to these counters, or you simply don't have inflict? Are you supposed to just lose with zero contest?

Number one's issue comes from DR Doomstacking meta which escalates to something else, and isn't entirely exclusive to healers. Most of your problems when facing against DR Doomstackers was to Fray, Acid-Rain, Burn, Ravage, etc. Any form of methods to shred armor and DR%.

This unfortunately is a problem that wouldn't really be solved if you nerf healing. In this case, heals are like extra needle in this needle-infested haystacks of balancing issues when it come to DR-Doomstackings. It wouldn't solve the problem. But then again...

Any amount of DR, doomwall or not, amplifies the effective value of healing. Even a meh 30% def/res is still a world of difference in healing that scales the same (or better, even!) compared to a skill that has to hit against defenses. 200 healing vs 200 damage is 200 health back vs 140 health lost. I've had fights against people who weren't doomwalls where I had to do 3x their max HP by the end and I STILL lost.

Honestly, reading these posts almost makes me feel like we're playing entirely different games. I simply don't understand how you can come to the conclusion that healing is in an okay state, especially compared to builds that have no access to them.

During times where opponents are far from one another, what is a non-healer going to do? Evoker, for example. What are you going to do, throw down a shitty enchant? Refresh your CM for your whole turn that you probably already had up turn 1? Meanwhile, the person opposite of you just got their entire HP bar back. Anywhere from 2 to 10 turns of progress lost during that downtime.