Yesterday, 06:29 PM
(Yesterday, 05:38 PM)Autumn Wrote: 1: The druid summons feel very satisfying and are very well designed, while the others just simply do not without serious juice. Take an Ascended Suzaku vs every other youkai.1: I can agree with this sentiment in principle. Many summons in the game don't necessarily feel like they're very satisfying. But I would argue that personally when I summon a druid animal, I immediately feel bad because it feels too easy. I'm someone who loves to play Ruler. I think Ruler summons suck due to the heavy costs, but because of that, it feels rewarding and fair to have those minions out. I think Druid summons can remain satisfying without being unbalanced.
2: This is not a problem with druid, I do not mind fighting them at all and their up front 25 FP cost is pretty standard for abilities of this strength.
3: This seems like a salt thread and doesn't actually ask if this makes Druid unbalanced, cause this class is very balanced overall and is a welcome addition to the game.
4: If you remove double turning I feel like a lot of grievances are solved with the animals, as has been the case for every single summon in history, this isn't a druid issue.
Non-druid summons at the moment feel kind of bad to play because Druid exists. I think there's a decent amount of good youkai currently in the game. You can have great success as a summoner. The engineer bots are also very good, but they need to be used intelligently for their utility powers. The other more niche summons can also be solid. Shine knight builds are powerful when built well. Ruler sucks, but I enjoy it.
I think it's sometimes understated how powerful it is to have extra units on your side in a game like SL2. It's a tactical RPG, where efficient use of momentum is paramount. Having 7 more momentum on your side each turn is a swing in power that is hard to estimate. Most summon classes tend to be balanced around that concept, especially Ruler. Ruler is a class that respects the power of momentum. To have these summons act, you must use your momentum. This makes perfect sense. If the summons were stronger, and the class more practical to play in general, it would be a perfect example of a "balanced" minion user.
The idea that you can just summon guys and have them fight for you is interesting, and it can be fun. But striking a balance there is very difficult. If you're not investing much resources or momentum into the summons, then they should be weak in terms of total damage / utility. Because summons are an extension of your character's power, all of your summons' actions are your actions when it comes to balance. Imagine a class that allows you to make 2 more attacks (although weaker) each turn. That's what druid is. Then imagine you can pay 3 momentum to get 2 extra attacks for the rest of the fight, unless the enemy breaks a 500 hp shield.
On top of that, druid has wildshape powers, and some decent spells, that allow an otherwise powerful build to be used in conjunction with the summons. You can be a mage with heals, tossing out aoe damage, or you can be a powerful crit build with a variety of useful offensive skills. This is all in the same class. Ghost/Druid? You're one of the best crit builds, on top of having the summons. Priest/Druid? You're one of the best healers, on top of having the best summons! Evoker/Druid? Big spell damage, AND summons. Etc. The addition of all these factors is what makes Druid truly oppressive when it's played well. It's a large amount of free power that can be part of any other build.
2: It's not standard for this kind of power; other summons have various drawbacks and costs that are greater.
3: This is definitely a Druid thing. I'm not making a salt thread. I've faced druids in pvp, but I'm saying this as someone who is playing druid as well.
I don't think Druid is well balanced. I think it's too strong specifically because of the summons. The wildshapes are quite good, but the summons are where it's busted. As a druid, you have multiple buttons that instantaneously summon a new ally on your team that can act independently and carry its own weight regardless of what you do. This omnipotence is the issue, you can even resummon them later with cooldown as the only limiter. And I think many of its tools, such as the plants, could stand to be improved. It's a class that needs some work in both ways.
Something that feels seriously wrong is when you can just spam summon units until you win. What are they gonna do when you spawn 4 fully functional dudes, and there's still the main guy to fight at the same time? How can anyone normal win that battle?
4: Double turning is a problem, especially the 1v1 thing where the summoner procs diehard and gets to play first. Druid is still a problem independent of that, however.