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[Poison] Poison = Strong
#6
(07-19-2022, 09:03 PM)Tana Wrote: At the ranges you can typically apply poison, you can instead just basic someone for 400-800 damage. Over and over.

A thing people forget is, most PVP fights are over in under 4 rounds. I've personally been seeing these tanky poison-oriented high-def mages get absolutely stomped in under 3 rounds by some nerd with an axe. Over and over.

Your math is also incredibly weirdly biased vs. basic hitters - Somehow only assuming one swing a turn, when any basic hitter is going to be hitting you 3 times a turn, and with far higher than base crit mod - Typically they'll be closer to 150-170% crit mod, and stacking clarets, and possibly even other damage boosts; 120 SWA is semi-low for a basic attacker. 'Momentum economy' is that they're getting half a basic swing in per turn with 2 actions via poison vs. someone with a full 3 actions per turn, as an example.

Flat math like this also doesn't take into account the way basic hitters have to reduce damage on top of it all. Say, a wraithguard eating a chunk of their incoming that the theoretical hexer won't have.
well, this is why i said i was using flat numbers and averages to point it out. i don't have the information of 2 optimized builds vs each other, nor did I claim the math would be that. I'm certain there are melee classes that exist outside of the duelist main, so 3 turns wouldn't apply, nor would they focus crit heavy if they didn't have fluer.

when variables change, the math will too, and you can do the same thing as I did, I wasn't going to account for it all because A: lack of information and B: too niche, and assumed 'optimized' meaning this is 2 chars in best-slotted gear with everything maxed out, etc. which, while it may not seem like it atm that's not common. (I'm playing korvara, but I am aware that balance applies to both, however, most people don't pvp or strive for super optimized builds((I think)))
with flat math you can see that essentially ( i did include flat res ) poison has an edge basically as a free damage, for the sake of argument you can consider that they can only act once, if both acted twice their damage would double, aside from the poison, so on and so forth.
more importantly, there are just more options to react to flat damage from a melee strike than poison, which is the entire point. dr options, armor, building a stack, items, etc.
poison has few options and they aren't real options because it can just be reapplied. however if you want to do all the math involved in making 2 optimized builds, getting their 2 average hits, what the actions would play out like etc, then you are free too. for me, showing numbers in a vacuum displays the inherent flaw of how poison functions. 

i can't argue an entirely different data set would produce different results. i can argue that poison still has little to no options vs the other damage being proposed (melee), it is a free 10% max health damage and is oppressive in its manner of sticking to a target.

also on a side note, the sheet is there, you can copy and apply the dr there and show the math if you want, plus plugin the numbers you want to in order to alter the data presented and have it be 1:1 in format as my own. you can even * the damage per turn values by 2 to showcase 2 attacks, then get the calculation for damage per turn w/ the 3 turn thing in mind(idk how exactly you'd do this one). i think its much more easy to show visual data than to toss hypotheticals back and forth, and frankly, the thing you proposed isn't what I'm arguing per see.

lets assume somebody has 170% crit mod, 141 swa since 120 is low, I imagine 141 is enough?
[Image: unknown.png?size=4096]
this also accounts for 2 hits a turn from each. the melee crits everytime, assuming that for, whatever reason its 100%
you barely beat poison. with res you just don't beat it, poison has special resistance so its not commonly resisted unless you preemptively planned for it. so poison is just generally still doing more damage, and this isn't even accounting for the person being a ghost and prob having 100-300 more hp + the extra 5% from the poison being applied, which would just increase the poison damage. i also kept the mage chars stats the same
#nerf summoner
#nerf poison
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Messages In This Thread
[Poison] Poison = Strong - by BoberJones - 07-19-2022, 08:01 AM
RE: [Poison] Poison = Strong - by Lolzytripd - 07-19-2022, 08:04 AM
RE: [Poison] Poison = Strong - by Autumn - 07-19-2022, 08:55 AM
RE: [Poison] Poison = Strong - by BoberJones - 07-19-2022, 05:43 PM
RE: [Poison] Poison = Strong - by Tana - 07-19-2022, 09:03 PM
RE: [Poison] Poison = Strong - by BoberJones - 07-19-2022, 10:37 PM
RE: [Poison] Poison = Strong - by Kameron8 - 07-20-2022, 01:24 AM
RE: [Poison] Poison = Strong - by BoberJones - 07-20-2022, 02:52 AM

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