[MuniCuz]

I would also hazard a guess that based on Croakie's last paragraph singling out others for 'the same exact targeting behaviour' there has to be some degree of understanding here of wrongdoing that is being shirked. To point the finger and say "well, why aren't you doing anything about these people?" implies a belief that they are aware of their own behaviour enough to to compare it to someone else's.

Also of note is the comment of "the charges do not value the accused's side of the story". This sounds like they know the charges, but that they have something to present regarding them? All in all, this definitely reads as someone who knows more about their own behaviour and the things done than they're willing to outright state.

It's an incredibly dangerous precedent to set when you come on the forums trying to call out another group in response to your own ban. We saw that the last time with people pointing fingers at the hearth. If there are others to report, report them! The forums isn't for that kind of dirty laundry, anyhow.

As mentioned before, I wish it were all made so much clearer in the beginning instead of being vaguely responded to. By all means, if something wrong was done, it was done, and time will be taken off to reflect on that once it's clarified. At the end of the day, I said it was from what I could barely get, and if something was incorrect, then I'll take back the statements in question. I'll put into that commitment of helping if all turns out to be true.

Rest of my feelings regarding moderation as of now still remains closely the same, a la certain passing of time with reports, some crucial details being left out for whatever the reasons may be, etc. Anyway, let's make that the final response so the rest of the forum post can be focused on.

   

[Dezark]

Alright it time for me to give my general thoughts on this matter as I always do, it comes up at some point so I apologize in advance for any sort of wall of ranting or otherwise I might have in this process. I'll see what I can do to not go overboard on it but I'm not gonna make any promises..

On the regard of the bans for those that were shown..

Obviously these suck for those that they've hit, I'm not gonna try and say "screw the GMs" or whatever else for that matter, cause when the rule changes dropped and Dev voiced his original intention with "We're taking these pact actions, many of which were harassment and otherwise and we're not going to hold them against those who were reported for the matter as to give fairness." didn't go great. We all know that, people were threatening to quit the moment that announcement dropped because MANY people have been harassed plenty on this regard and reported such before this, I myself reported someone for personal harassment that I'm still learning of the matters what were spread due to a very minor spat and a decision ICly that followed after a few days following. So I was less than content knowing that someone who harassed me OOCly to the point they tried to ruin the image to others, was in blunt, piss poor in taste. So knowing that would of gone unpunished was less than pleasing in it own regard, so obviously I gave my own voicing on that and I'll honestly stand by what I've said before, if I've done something to wrong someone enough that it enough to get me a ban of some degree? That's fine. All I ask, is to explain the situation, leave out important detail of whom or whatever, but explain what the issue was so it clear to others.

So when I woke up, and than later saw the ban of another, regarding those who've been punished, the biggest perk to see was "DM ------ for info." which made me believe that they'll be given a chance to explain things on what's happened, help make it clear and not leave people in a sense of "Well fuck me I guess!" cause we're obviously humans and not going to remember every little thing and detail especially when we're heated on that regard.

I can't speak for so much on others essentially on that for if they've reached out on that or not, and to the GM team, I get there a limit to all you can do and give, I understand your following a process and everything else, and if honestly saying this is enough to get me a warning and slap? So be it but.. Actually speak with people on this regard, in regard to what been mentioned above by Muni, and the show in response of mass this has been something that needed to be done often before on this, and still does to this point.

Obviously, there a limit, I get that. I get that people might not learn from things either, but if to quote the big reason of "You continued to rile up players than it shown you've not changed." Than neither have those who actively snap at each other things and actively nitpick and try to shit on others, both in a sense of taking something OOCly and holding it as a IC punishment with others through different characters, and otherwise. Meiaquar-OOC chat in the Korvara discord is my big example to this, and if people disagree your free to voice why you think otherwise or why your in the right, but a large amount of spats I've seen, a large amount of "we want to clear this to stop this" and otherwise, are coming from those who actively do the actions, either cause "it a joke lol" or otherwise, or take it in the IC and it followed up on with that regard and brings questions to things, which to quote a specific player..


"To the people bitching about the cannon we have, go touch grass and consider your own infinite Wi-Fi Bot bullshit"

Obviously, I'm not quoting word to word, because SEVERAL people told them to chill, and they deleted the post and apologized, but more than once Dev has had to step in to the chat, as well as GMs, to tell people to relax on this front. You can take this how you see fit, and how you take to someone going "haha deal with it" to response of things as you like, but that is riling up players just as much as someone else could, and depending on how it continues, and what is said? That is a form of harassment overall, and those such should be getting punished equally so, if GMs can't catch it all? That's fine things can be gathered, I'll personally stick to taking screenshots of every log and prepare a thing to give GMs as a whole if needed when moments like these come up, cause people don't do good on showing when they're going for actual jokes, vs throwing up their wall to defend every little bit because at that point, it the same as when someone confronted for something and said it not fair and a GM has to be called cause of claims or otherwise, or when people snap at everyone hands for pointing out something on how it taken. Cause in short, what you have listed in your lore, what your rank is in actuality and how it taken across; is not globally known, followed, or otherwise for those outside of it. You can keep defensive on it of course and that fine, but when it snapped and pinged to force something to be taken when it being spoken over generally, it isn't. I have no issue with anyone on this front or anything like that. If it comes across that I do, I'm sorry. Come to my DMs and I will hash it out with you, I'm not stepping on toes on that front if no one steps on mine.

It at this point that people are actively trying to shit on each other, on either side even when things have passed with going to make pokes of fun on the end of things, I have plenty of minor irks and such of course that I could say and make things clear, but I'll save that for a later time, the only other major thing I can say, and ask. Is to hold any real nitpicking at others if it able to be done. I'm not going to point fingers and say it'll happen, we're free to hash things out but I can get where people stand on being unhappy for all of this too.

tl;dr - I got off track at some point in my thoughts during a really big conversation, but over all I want to say. I don't hold anything heavily toward GMs, I'm disappointed to see the general response given and I'll keep my fingers crossed that GMs actively crack down on people for the stuff I've seen that happening in mass that others have also been smacked for, especially for the harassment on that and that they actually take the time to discuss things with people and make it clear on where it stands, if the person has a position of any kind, be it Leaders, Advisors, Ambassadors, Eventmins, GMs even, show the community that punishment is equal on that front. Make people actually not pull the shit and such, and just be clear especially for those with shadow bans, cause I've heard of two that've happened and passed since than. It your call for all on how you follow it from that point in time, and that fine.

On a lesser lesser note, I hope things go well for you Anhita, you were an amazing player and I appreciate the RPs we've been able to have in the past, and I hope where-ever you go from here ya have a good time. My DMs are always open if ya ever wanna chat and keep in contact or be caught up on whatever, I don't mind. Your a great friend and person and that won't change anytime soon. Stay safe, stay strong and remember ya loved by lots <3

I'm sorry for coming to your forum and going on a big rant on things without saying that before and such.

[caliaca]

Snip

I'll probably finally give my full opinions later since I'm extremely relevant to basically all of this but I kinda just wanted to say its a bit bad form to use a quote from someone who both backtracked and apologized for their words instead of any others. Is this not exactly whats being asked for? Communication then understanding and moving on? Why bring it back up? People will know who you're talking about and that's gonna direct stuff their way. Especially since that's a much more harsh version of what was actually said.

If you have a problem with me coming into that chat to clarify things you can always dm me.

I find it difficult to call them spats when they actually did clear up things and everyone involved seems genuinely calm and understanding. I'm not sure where that's coming from.

Regarding 'Dev having to get involved' too - he admitted that people were calm and it was just a text is hard to read the situation. So I'm still unsure why that is used like it was some big problem.

[WaifuApple]

I do fail to see the problem when a joke is shared between two warring nations, with both sides playing into it, on an OOC level. To me that seems in good fun - neither side is overall having a bad time with that. There may have been people who weren't there who took it the wrong way in catching up, but we can't prepare hours ahead for small misinterpretations of a singular thing. These are not things a GM needs to police, either.

Clarifying discussions that were had about you while you were not around is also not really an issue to speak of. That's merely to ensure that, from the mouth of the person themselves, any OOC confusion is cleared up, and nobody is of the OOC belief of things that aren't true. People are fine not to understand every bit and piece of a certain thing, but clarifying those details is harmless, and serves only to bridge gaps in understanding, as far as I can tell.

IC isn't invalidated because some people don't know a character's IC. Regarding the recent 'it's just a joke', clarification was met with an apology for high tensions, so as far as I know things really just were being misinterpreted there, and then more people on the opposing 'side' proceeded to joke along, increasing my confidence that things were all in good fun, and no malice or actual offense presented. To pull cards as if that wasn't resolved in a proper way is questionable.

[Snarky Soujo]

Its been almost a year for myself here, a long year. I don't talk personally often, or open up.

I have come to know many people in that time, the innocent learning player experience was something that most people can say is a rose tinted experience. Being a consistent player I have come to shake hands with a lot of players, a blind experience to iceberg of SL2. It comes with a veil to everything that came from the past, however it also comes at the cost of having players tell you how it happened.

This community has been hurting for a long time. You can see the wounds of everything speaking before this ban wave, in how the tribalism has damaged it, and how history remains history even if we smile, wave and pretend it is okay. 


At some point, there is a time in which you make a decision. I blame no one for walking away, with or without words, I've considered it myself.

It hurts. It hurts a lot sometimes the assumptions made here and there, "it gets worse before it gets better.", I have to tell myself in order to keep going. I haven't stopped saying that to myself. To confront your harasser, is something that is massively uncomfortable. Having to do it several times, and to negotiate with them, negotiate, was something that I would wish onto nobody else. The player agency in how things were, was often at the behest of this sort of experience.

As a player, I wanted to see how I could introduce things that Korvara held the capacity for. Some thing that were not as prevalent in Mainland, the fact that you could talk to a leader of a nation, and impact the game and the story of the island is something that I was excited for in prospect. I worked my ass off, leaving trails and ensuring things that I have do were within the guidelines of the game, I allowed my character to be vulnerable. I was taken advantage of, through the small groups, through the tribalism through everything. Through meta gaming, harassment, leaks of my personal messages.

When I was rewarded with an opportunity, my personal experience was briefly that of excitement. The wash that came after, was something that drenched my every being making me consider the love and work into the community. I have my own frustrations, but I keep them outside of the community and find ways to vent them out so I can return to the game with a clear mind. Its overbearing sometimes, before to have to advocate for myself and negotiate every little thing, and its overbearing now often times alone.

Something I like to quote often from a comfort content creator, raging over a silly video game.

"I appreciate I; but look at what we are dealing with man! You gotta draw the line somewhere!"
"You gotta look inside yourself and say, what am I willing to put up with today?"


You sometimes have to ask, why you come to bat in this community. I know I've asked myself that.

Nobody is perfect. The weight of decision is difficult, I am far from perfect.

My trust in decisions comes from a place of empathy, in how often the community has dug and trenched through public appeal. As someone whom administrated a few roleplaying forums and servers, I do not blame either choice in transparency. You are damned if you do, damned if you don't. Grab the pitchforks, light the torches. (please don't)

Nothing is going to be perfect, I was vocal myself on the day of the announcement of the policy expansion/changes. I will do as I have always done in the past, batter the waves with body, and try to work until the tides lower and the water calms. The steps of pro activity were going to be bumpy, I had no disillusionment to that, but hopefully by the end of it, the sun sets on still water.

[Poruku]

I guess I'll take this opportunity to briefly share my thoughts on the general state of affairs

I think I resonate with Cereza the most, but for me I was a newplayer during the SL2 renaissance about 3 years ago, when G6 became a great environment and things were pretty great for a while. There were cliques, and plenty of bullshit and terrible things that happened to close friends of mine. But at least it was fun.

I don't know how much of a role Korvara played in the shift, but something changed drastically, and the game has slowly become less fun.

When korvara started, I wanted to be a leader. I didn't get it, but I got a high role and waited for my chance, which was certainly a mistake. And I realized only recently how much that desire for power rotted away a lot of enjoyment of the game for me. Power is something that corrupts. It is a great responsibility, and a difficult task, but it is also the object of envy. And when you are in power, people look up to you not just with envy, but also with great expectations, tainted with spite.


And at some point, I realized that the community was crumbling around me. From the top, from the bottom. People I love, getting banned, people I liked disliking each other openly. Every time something happens, it seems to become more complex. More strange and confusing. At this point, I feel like the community is unstable. Nobody really knows the full story, many people don't trust each other. People feel like they can't speak openly, and at the same time feel like they don't know enough. Everyone watching their backs or hiding pain. 

The things I said in my other post about the bans and the GMs is still true, but that's not even the problem anymore. There's a cancer of distrust and hate in this community, and I dearly miss happier days... I miss G6, and I even miss the early days of Korvara. Back then, people were just fucking around and playing a role and doing crazy shit and things just happened. But even back then you could see the cracks.

I don't really have a solution, I'm just sad and disappointed. I don't really enjoy the game anymore besides smaller scheduled rp with people I know. With characters that aren't involved in politics and conflict. Or with my antagonists who are just a villain for heroes to punch and to have a bit of pvp. Though even those are controversial sometimes, and that thought makes me incredibly sad.

It's just too hard, man. Korvara is so hard. You have to put in so much work to do anything, and you might not even get anything... And even if you succeed and achieve your goals, it might make other people unhappy with you, or worse.

I'll be honest, when I wasn't offered the role of Premier after Ella stepped down, I was really frustrated for a while, although I kept it inside. I think that's such a shame, I hate what I let this game do to me. I love Filia and Anhita but it got to my head. It made me not enjoy my main character. I can't imagine how many other people felt things similar to me. And perhaps acted on those feelings. And I think it's insane how much negativity this game has caused by virtue of being so inherently cutthroat. Where there is power, there is pain and envy.

I can't even imagine the pain Filia and Marci went through. It's only now that I truly realize the extent by which this community is shattered. I don't really have the solutions, I am just sad right now.

But I love you guys. I think we can figure it out, over time.

[FaeLenx]

SL2 is better now than ever before.

I'd rather have this than the previous situation we had of literally nobody ever getting banned and some of the worst, most awful behavior simply being tolerated. This isn't the place to name names but there were some rather awful people that it took too long to see the last of. That fills me with a bit of confidence that the admins aren't going on a crazy banning spree. If they tolerated THAT ALL for so long, why should I believe they suddenly changed?