[Autumn]

With the recent addition of Nagas, you can make much better off full offensive mages than liches(both reach 80 base wil easily), and not die instantly to 2 or more spatials/a light breeze.(on top of that, Nagas get a 15% higher VIT growth.)

Currently Magia Detremus gives you 50% more FP for 50% less HP, would it be possible if these were both lowered to 25% more FP for 25% less HP? Would anyone even be opposed to such? Health is very vital to living, liches are not even scary to deal with, since they will more than likely go down instantly, most times on round 0 or round 1. and not even 80 base will builds will take down anyone instantly anymore, there's too many ways to survive nowadays.

[Shujin]

While I do not mind that, I would rather have a skill for them that creates something like a FP shield for them(drain FP instead of HP). I kinda like being able to grind with almost endless FP.

They are astral beings with no real form, Sounds for me like they are full FP and no HP actually, but that would probably be to strong, if they lose FP instead HP then. But I like the thought of FP stealing attacks being actually "Dangerous" to them.

*Dreams*
Lich is critically hit!
Lich:"Pff, Bitch please, you can´t hurt me by attacking my weakspot!"
Warrior:"Oh yeah?? *grabs galgorth and crits with it! Leeches 10% FP*
Lich:"Well, Shit..."

[Snake]

That would be nice gimmick, Liches locked at 10 HP and any damage they take is FP damage. (While having 100% more FP) But eh, too 'early' for such buff, so I'll go with Spooks' one.
-25% HP for +25% FP.

[MegaBlues]

It's not too early at all for a buff like that. Liches are downright horrible, and I think giving them +150% fp in exchange for not being able to effectively heal and needing to cast from effective HP is fair.

[Chaos]

I would rather explore alternative options, such as a 'pull from FP if close to dying' trick, or a 'auto-revive at full HP with no penalty if they've been down for X straight rounds' passive.

[Autumn]

Perhaps, the point being that lich dies way too fast, and that ends up being fine in PvE, there's ways to play around dying too fast, and unfortunately I hate resorting to this every time, but their pvp viability has been a joke of the community forever, like Dullahan before their interference change(and now Dullahan is great)

I mean, like it or not, the implications of liches in general would cause disputes amongst them and other characters, that much is undeniable.

The cure to making Dullahan useful was getting rid of their one weakness, getting disabled forever by interference.

I would be open to discussing about an FP shield of some kind, or perhaps, when they reach 0HP, they revive with full HP on their next turn, but sacrifice 50% of their FP (now leaving them open to critical hits) and that passive is disabled until they reach 0HP for real (or for the rest of the fight!), any thoughts on that kind of idea?

[Sarinpa1]

It's not impossible to build a tanky enough lich for that to be overwhelming.
I'd much rather see it reduced to -25%/+25%.
Or, something along the route of how some games (namely final fantasy tactics) have undead - they rise after X turns. Way I'd see it ingame, is that upon reaching 0HP, Liches remains would be there, bound to get up in a turn or two, with some % of HP, or something, you having to dish out the damage to fuck the remains up, else they'd rise with full HP.
I know I'm not being very clear and I don't really know how to refine the idea to fit SL, but something along the lines would suit them lore wise and would make them more formiddable, I'd say. Maybe. I don't know.

[Ranylyn]

As someone who's played Tactics Ogre and Final Fantasy Tactics, both of which used an undead revival timer, I'd like to support Sarin's suggestion.

Why? Because it just makes sense for a race with those stats from a gameplay perspective. A potenial big threat that's decently easy to deal with temporarily and buys you a few turns to see to everything else, but will get right back up if you're not done by then. In both PVE and PVP this can lead to interesting dynamics, and I think it has potential to be well balanced, considering.

It doesn't entirely suit Lich lore, sure, since they'd ideally return to their phylactery, but it could maybe be an activated racial skill to feign defeat when "near death" (hitting 0 hp) while instead spending a few rounds to recover and regain your power.

[Fern]

I honestly don't think it's necessary to go for semi-complicated options. -25% HP for +25% FP seems fine and simple enough to me.

[Kameron8]

The more HP we give to Liches, the more likely it is we'll need to address their can't-be-crit passive. If a soldier can get upwards to 600-700 health, a 475-525 health lich with full tank stats might turn out to be immune to physical damage. I'd rather see a mana-barrier worked in as an optional trait, instead of going after their huge Focus pool for health.