[Rendar]

As of right now, stat reduction skills are horrendously monstrous right now. Rampaging getting reduced was a step in the right direction, but certain things (and boosters) are huge.

Let's take Archer for instance...

Sure, they take a penalty to hit.. but against uh. Anyone.. that can't dodge.. Well they take -15 to STR/SKI (and lose their subslot) or.. they take -15 CEL/Lose their movement options.

This only gets worse if your weapon has rampaging to stack negative stats onto it, forcing people down even more on stats... And hey, if you have a bow? Fantastic, -20 Defense from an aerial razor.

Lord only knows if you are using a gun and decide to vampire shell someone, which gives you +12, and them -12... which creates a 24 point disparity...

Just.. Check over numbers Dev. They're getting really silly, and the fact that I can reduce someone to worthless stats with very little setup is silly.

[Kameron8]

Well, all +/- effects that impact all stats (or some that only impact one stat, like the archer skills mentioned) are improperly scaled for the new system. I'm sure it'll be addressed once the number of stats/scaling is solidified. Until then it would be silly to change their values, in my opinion.

See:

Install, Death Knighting, Vamp Shell, etc.

[Neus]

How about you list the biggest offenders instead so we can save time?

[Autumn]

Major cases include stuff like

-def/res modifiers:
Geldoren (-10 def/res, 1.5x when crit)
Aerial Razor (-10 def/res, doubled at the end of the line.)
Shatter Beam (3+Terrasq level/5, ends up being -15 def/res at lvl 60 terrasq)

-All Stats
Vamp Shell (-12 ALL stats with one overcharge at max)
All the curses(-12 at rank 3)

+All stats
Death knighting(+10 all stats)
Install(Varies greatly, but can be anywhere from +8 to +15 in varied stats)
Upgrade (For Mechanations, I think +7 all stats or something)
Vamp Shell(+12 all stats, was mentioned before)


I would include rising game, but rising game doesn't +all stats, it's somewhat specific and not that impactful on anything but turn order, due to celerity.

That's about all I've noticed that are major cases, might be best to just go through all the -stat skills in general and tweak them ever so slightly.

[Rendar]

It'd be good if Vampire's Sanguine Crest was looked at as well. It will (hopefully) be more okay with the nerf of the other stuff, but getting 80-90 in nearly every stat (not even kidding) with no real buffs to speak of really isn't okay.

Sanguine Crest currently (at 40 sanctity) is just +12 STR/WIL/SKI/CEL/DEF. Sure, it comes with the caveat that you get 25% Healing and 30% Light weakness and 1.5x Holy weakness but...

[spoiler]Light Resist is a dime-a-dozen and for literally one equipment slot you can get that nullified (and get 60% dark resist out of the deal)... or Brighter Darkness giving 5% light resist and reducing Holy to 125% extra damage. It's real easy to stack Light Resist if you're building for it, or if you want something different.. Crystal Mirror allows you to severely punish and deter people from hitting you with light attacks. The healing is a minor issue, but it doesn't really matter so much whenever you can just dish out so much damage that you instantly brutalize people...

Not to mention Lunar Lunatism is uh.. maybe.. a lot of really good due to the fact that it doesn't really remove much/if any of your essence and Fear/Hesitation/Charm immunity whilst applying FEAR/HESITATION/CHARM just by existing or getting attacked,attacking is ridiculous. Sanctity is basically aptitude 2.0 for Vampires. 40 points in gets you +12 to STR/WIL/SKI/CEL/DEF.. but even putting in no points (or the bare minimum to get +7) puts you at a ridiculous advantage over other races...

So. Vampire needs a looksy at as well.[/sub]

[Neus]

I made some adjustments for the next beta version, mostly reductions since stats are lower overall and all that.

[Rendar]

So, since we're on the topic of nerfing things that give a ton of stats.

Mechanations are still getting like.. +7 to every stat for using Upgrade (Engineer) on themself. This seems like an oversight since Youkai got nerfed, for the most part.

[Neus]

Where are you getting +7 from?

[Rendar]

My bad, it's +5 to all stats.

[Lolzytripd]

engineer and summoner are two different things all together