[Mivereous]

Here's a comparison of Duelist and Kensei offensive skills, and some reasons why Kensei doesn't feel like an upgrade offensively. I don't care about the passives, innates, or active supports, however I will mention Absolute Death R5.

Duelist Sidecut vs Kensei Kagekiri

Sidecut is a 3M move that attacks a 3-line, for a diminishing 10/8/6/4/2 FP cost. It can be elementally enchanted. It does STR+Weapon Power damage, and is a basic attack.

Here's a rank one Sidecut: Karatynn Arena Combatant takes 50 Slash damage.

With Absolute Death R5, at rank one, 75 damage.

Kagekiri is a 4M move, reduced to 3M if using a Katana, that attacks a 3-5-line for an increasing 14/16/18/20/22 FP cost. It can be elementally enchanted. It does 3/4 STR+Weapon Power+Bonus based on rank of 3/6/9/12/15 damage, and is an autohit.

Here's a rank one Kagekiri: Karatynn Arena Combatant takes 27 Slash damage.

At rank five, that would be 42 damage.

With Absolute Death R5, at rank one, 40 damage; at rank five, 63 damage.

Conclusion: I'm losing power and FP efficiency from a promo move, and the only way to make that move almost reach the same power as its base-class counterpart is to use more FP for a limited time status. But hey, at least I can have a bit more range. And it is an autohit.





Duelist Repel vs Kensei Sharenzan

Repel is a 3M move that pushes back an opponent one tile, or three on a critical hit, for a diminishing 10/6/2 FP cost. It does STR+Weapon Power damage, and is a basic attack.

Here's a rank one Repel: Felidae Arena Combatant takes 54 Slash damage.

With AD R5, at rank one, 81 damage.

Sharenzan is a 4M move, reduced to 3M if using a Katana, that pushes back one enemy 3 tiles for an increasing 14/16/18/20/22 FP cost. It does 3/4 STR+Weapon Power+Bonus based on rank of 3/6/9/12/15 damage, and is an autohit.

Here's a rank one Sharenzan: Felidae Arena Combatant takes 33 Slash damage.

At rank five, that would be 48 damage.

With Absolute Death R5, at rank one, 49 damage; at rank five, 72 damage.

If the target is Airborne, I can slap another 1.5x damage on that.

Rank one: 49 damage.
Rank five: 72 damage.
Rank one, AD R5: 73 damage.
Rank five, AD R5: 108 damage.

Conclusion: I'm losing power and FP efficiency from a promo move, and the only way to make that move almost reach the same power as its base-class counterpart is to use more FP for a limited time status, and/or hope they are somehow Airborne by Raijinken or some other move. But hey, at least I can guarantee that I will knockback the enemy 3 tiles, and maybe apply Knockdown, if they are Airborne. And it is an autohit.




I would go on for the rest, but the general conclusion I found is:

Conclusion: I'm losing power and FP efficiency from a promo move, and the only way to make that move almost reach the same power as its base-class counterpart is to use more FP for a limited time status

[Rendar]

So... the gist here is that.. Duelist Base class is way to good?

[Mivereous]

Personally, I think 3/4 STR scaling is way too bad.

EDIT: Heck, put the 3/4 STR scaling on the Duelist things, and full scaling on the Kensei, since Duelist are supposed to be more about grace, and not pure power (citation).

[Rendar]

I don't see why Kensei don't get like. 3/4 STR, 1/4 SKI to put it on par.

[Lolzytripd]

I don't think nerfing duelist is the correct way to go.

since it indirectly nerfs ghost....which is a bad thing.

[Mivereous]

Most people say we need more buffs to balance things out, sooooo 3/4 STR + 1/4 SKI sounds like a good start for me.

[LadyLightning]

I would say at ~least~ half an half, if not weighted in favour of SKI
over STR. Kensei are supposed to be just as much about grace and
swiftness as they are raw strength, if not more so.

SKI*0.75 + STR*0.25 + weapon power + rank.

[Mivereous]

Half and half is a bad idea in my opinion, as shown by skills such as Beowhulf's special attack, and the Tactician Dualpower (where I go from gaining awesome STR and average SKI from Soldier, then suddenly 50 STR and 35 SKI is worse than 100% STR). Duelist and Kensei do have a higher SKI growth than STR growth, but I don't think that would quite be the right answer either, as I would think (or hope, but who am I kidding) that most people using Duelist and Kensei are using it for melee-oriented tasks, as well as that most people have Duelist and Kensei in the sub slot so are hopefully getting more STR from another melee oriented main class. But that's just assumptions on my part, of course.

[Daisuke]

Mivereous » Sun Dec 07, 2014 3:57 am[/url]"]Half and half is a bad idea in my opinion, as shown by skills such as Beowhulf's special attack, and the Tactician Dualpower (where I go from gaining awesome STR and average SKI from Soldier, then suddenly 50 STR and 35 SKI is worse than 100% STR). Duelist and Kensei do have a higher SKI growth than STR growth, but I don't think that would quite be the right answer either, as I would think (or hope, but who am I kidding) that most people using Duelist and Kensei are using it for melee-oriented tasks, as well as that most people have Duelist and Kensei in the sub slot so are hopefully getting more STR from another melee oriented main class. But that's just assumptions on my part, of course.

The main issue with that is not only is your strength butt for using any duelist promo as your main class, the only real option for a class with good strength is arbalest which isn't melee and has no cel growth which has a dramatic impact on that class's playstyle.

Also you'll only be soldier for 20 levels and even they have more skill growth than strength growth so having more str than skill for the 20 levels is entirely dependent on your race.
A more realistic example would be having 35 STR and 50 SKI as a kensei because that's how their growths are. And suddenly Dual power and half and half scaling don't seem so bad.

[Lolzytripd]

perhaps

75% str +50% skill.