[Soapy]

tl;dr Stun is a bullshit status effect to get hit by, and Skullcaver is by far the worst instance of it since the only requirement is RNG.

I propose changing Skullcaver's effect to:

On Hit: Inflicts Flatfoot LV(UL/2).
On Critical: If target is flatfoot, inflict Knockdown.

This would keep the whole 'knocked silly' theme without it being too strong (or random).

(Knockdown on crit isn't as crazy as it sounds, Hands of the Giant/Cutthroat/Haunted Soul Deadly Smile all do the same thing.)

[Exxy]

We've had at least a dozen discussions concerning Skullcaver on-forum and off with the most getting passed be a status immunity for x duration; good luck.

[Ranylyn]

Or, alternatively, you can basically completely negate the stun by going first, taking your action instead of hoping you don't get outskipped, and then skipping on your last momentum. If stunned, you just won't get to use that 1 momentum; the stun eats up your "turn" you only had 1m on.

Yes, this only works if you're faster, but it's still a form of counterplay. Similarly to how the counterplay to autohits is defenses, resistances and damage reduction; every build has it's drawbacks.

[Soapy]

Or, alternatively, things could be balanced around people not making huge mistakes.

After all, you wouldn't call 'hoping the enemy misses with Sear despite being in range' a valid strategy... would you?

[Ranylyn]

EDIT: Completely rewording my post because I feel I was unjustly snippy in it due to a bad mood I was having due to something unrelated. I came across as a dick and I apologize. Mods, if you review my old post and feel it deserves a warning, I'll accept it. Sorry.


When I said "hoping to not be outskipped," that actually had nothing to do with the counterplay and more to do with common tactics; the faster combattant often tries to skip in an attempt to get to consecutive turns (Going last, then first.) Naturally, this is ultimately pointless since the slower combattant will just outskip them, but people do it anyways.

The counterplay involves NOT going for the skip as the faster character. Ergo, it does not hinge on the opponent making a mistake. Sorry if I wasn't clear.

Long story short, using this method, even four bandit bruisers (EDIT: Yes, I know this is about PVP, I'm using this as an extreme example of extreme stuns) alternating their skullcrackers can't make me lose turns. Stun is very easily mitigated if you're faster. And might I add, a lot of people cel to be a pointless stat unless you're a dodger or wind mage or using a cel scaling weapon, so this is a valid point in it's defense.

[Soapy]

The counterplay involves NOT going for the skip as the faster character. Ergo, it does not hinge on the opponent making a mistake. Sorry if I wasn't clear.

taking your action instead of hoping you don't get outskipped, and then skipping on your last momentum.

They enemy still has to fail to counter-skip.

This is not valid anything.

[Snake]

To be honest, this would be a lot more fair. KD has immunity, only eats away 3M, is completely nullified by MA and it still needs to crit to inflict KD 'AFTER' flatfoot.
This is completely balanced, and the max it could do would be the most annoying shit to fight against if you're not prepared for crits or KD. Aside the damage on it being a poop.

I hate agreeing with soapy because 'EverybodyHatesSoapy' meme, but he got me this time. (+1)

[Ranylyn]

The counterplay involves NOT going for the skip as the faster character. Ergo, it does not hinge on the opponent making a mistake. Sorry if I wasn't clear.

taking your action instead of hoping you don't get outskipped, and then skipping on your last momentum.

They enemy still has to fail to counter-skip.

This is not valid anything.

Ah, it was me who misunderstood what you meant. Not even sure how I managed to do so. I guess I was more frustrated at that external problem that is no one here's fault than I thought. Sorry about that.

You do have a valid point, to be sure. The opponents I've done this against didn't bother skipping because I was taking my turn at the start of the round so they didn't see a need TO skip, but it's true that they could just take their turn even later. It'd involve either being aware of this, or just skipping every single turn out of habit, but it WOULD be a hard shutdown to this solution.

Sorry for any confusion caused by my misunderstanding.

[Autumn]

I don't have a problem with Knockdown, knockdown isn't a free win unlike stun.