So it's that time of the month where we argue about why summoners are ridiculously overpowered if they bother to level their summons at all. This mainly is coming up because I watched an LB/Evo fight an Evo/GS and only win because of summons being bugged currently. Hell, even with them bugged, the LB/EVO would have lost if they didn't spam heal themself and get away from the .four. summons that spawned within skill spamming range. One of them did actually land a hit, which dealt about 110-130 ACID damage.
So, again. Let's look through the youkai repertoire for why Mass Summoning, or rather, summoning youkai in general, is OP.
Terrasque
With a 90% Strength Growth, 35% DEF, 50% RES, and 65% VIT growth when maxed out, this bugger isn't going to go down easily.
His skill attack is SHATTER BEAM, which costs 3 M, 8~9 FP, and is a 5-range attack. Dealing (STR/2)+TERRASQUE LEVEL Earth Physical damage and reduced your targets DEF AND RES by 3+(TERRASQUE LVL/5) for 3 rounds. At level 60, which is what this girl had hers at, thats about 68-69 FP ( divided by 2 if it uses it itself ), (STR/2)+60 Earth Phys damage. Remember that 90% Strength growth? Yeah. I doubt that's going to be low. and -15 DEF/RES which means you're way more susceptible to getting wrecked.
What are its other skills, maybe they open a weakness on the fellow? Oh. They don't.
Skitterscale, which provides 10 Evasion and 2 defense, and Regrowth which provides 2 HP regen. So it's a tanky lil' bugger.
Carbuncle
Another in the mystic tree! This guy has 80% WIL, 35% DEF, 50% RES, and 65% VIT growth when maxed out. Again, he won't be going down easy.
His skill attack is RUBY BEAM which costs 3 M, 8-9 FP, 5 range attack dealing WIL+CARBUNCLE LEVEL Earth Magical damage. At level 60, this is about 68-69 FP ( divided by 2 still ), WIL+60 Earth Phys Damage. It also BLINDS the person it hits, which is just ew.
What are its other skills, maybe they open a weakness on the fellow? Oh. They don't.
10% Dark Resistance, and should you have 7 youkai, +7 to all of its stats barring Vitality. Which means this lil tyke just got a whole lot stronger and deadly. With its High WIL growth, it will also be able to zap people with its beam for quite some time.
Sazae Oni
Oh boy, another mystic. What a surprise. It has the same growths as Carbuncle.
It's skill attack is WHIRLPOOL which is a CIRCLE 3 that deals WIL+ SAZAE ONI LEVEL water magical damage. Enemies who are smacked by it are dragged in 1 square. 3 M, 8-9 FP. At level 60 thats a rare damage type with WIL+60 damage at 68-69 FP (/2) and it drags you closer to its friends, usually. Meaning that its perfect for set ups.
What do its skills offers? Water Immunity, +2 SKI, and +6 dmg to kicks. So, Water Immunity and +2 SKI to itself. Ouch.
Wawa
This fairy is DANGEROUS. 100% Will growth, 100% Cel, 35% Def, 75% RES, and 60% Vit. She will often outspeed you and will take forever to go down.
Her skill attack is Black Rose, 2 range, 3M, 7-8 FP for it at level 1, blinds OR charms you for 2 turns. Which means you become a miss-monster against her or USELESS if you get the latter effect. It deals WIL+ WAWA LEVEL Dark Magical Damage. At level 60, that's at least 69 WIL+ 60 damage for 67-68/2 FP
What do the other skills offer? 10% Resist to status effects and.. LUC+WAWA LEVEL% chance to leech WAWA LEVEL/2 FP from a target to give to herself. So, she can sustain herself.
Izabe
Oh boy,same growths as Wawa. Lets get a move on to the pain-train then.
Her skill attack is Fairy Lance which is a Line 5, 3 M, 8-9 FP attack that deals WIL+IZABE level LIGHT MAGIC damage to the first enemy it hits. Not only that, but it also gets a nice scaling benefit of extra range every 10 Izabe levels up to a maximum of 11 squares in that line. Cross-board sniping anyone?
She has 10% Resist to status effects and the ability to raise FAI/RES of all allies within (2+Izabe Level/2) range by 2. If she's installed, it's even more.
Asrai
Same growths as the other fairies. Lets go.
Her attack is Parraeta, 7-8 FP, 3 M, 4 Range. It deals magical water damage equal to.. wait. What? 5+(2*Asrai Level) and.. heals the caster for HALF of that amount. So, at level 60, it will deal 125 damage and heal you for half of the damage it deals. That's silly and you know it.
Thankfully, she's a water fairy. So she gets 10% to resist status effects but also takes 25% extra Fire damage for her 50% Water Resist.
Kilkenny
So this big guy has 95% Strength, 35% Wil, 75% CEL, 35% DEF and RES, with 95% VIT.
His attack skill is CAT'S CLAW. 3 M, 8 FP, 4 Range. It deals Slash Magical Damage equal to CEL+Kilkenny Level. It also reduces the targets FP by Kilkenny Level/2. Which means that at level 60 it is 68/2 FP, 4 Range, 3 M for CEL+60 Magical Slash Damage and reduces your targets FP by 30.
With such a good attack, it has to have a lot of drawbacks right?
It deals 10% extra damage to Beast, Lupine, Felidae, and Grimalkin race types, and has 25% Slash Resistance, with 25% Water Weakness. So, weak to a rare damage type. Got it.
Byakko
This guy has the same growths as Kilkenny!
His attack is Thunder claw, 3 M, 8 FP, 2 Range. Deals Physical Lightning damage equal to STR+Byakko level. At level 60 that's 68/2 FP, 3 M, 2 Range, and STR+60 damage.
His skills give him +2 STR if he's near the west side of the map, and a self buff to STR equal to (2+ByakkoLvl/5) for (3+ByakkoLvl/10) rounds. At level 60 thats +14 Strength for 9 rounds.
Her attack is Drown, 6 FP 3 M, 4 range that deals WIL+Drowned Woman Level water magical damage. It can also silence a target for 3 rounds. At level 60 thats 66/2 FP that deals WIL+60 Water Magical Damage that silences.
Her skills is what makes her the worst offender of OP youkai syndrome. She's treated as a ghost type and is immune to burn status, but also gains resist 50% Blunt, Piercing, Slashing damage. That means any melee fighter will almost-always lose a momentum for attacking her. The other thread specifically about her does it better justice.
His attack skill is Hunter's Wind, 7-9 FP 3 M, 3 Range. Deals WIL+SEIRYUU level Wind Magic damage, also inflicts HUNTED for 2 rounds equal to SEIRYUULVL/2. Painful as hell. At level 60 this costs 67-69/2 FP, 3 M, 3 Range and WIL+60 Wind Magic damage that also further increases damage he does later by 30%.
His skills give him +2 CEL if he's to the east alongside 5 DEF and 10 Crit Evade, meaning that physical attackers will almost .never. harm him. Like. Ever. Have fun.
Haku
85% WIL, 70% CEL, 95% Def, 50% Res, 100% Vit. These things just get tankier...
Haku's attack is Ice Jet, dealing WIL+Haku Level Ice Magical Damage to all enemies in Line 5. 10 FP, 3 M. It also leaves ice tiles behind too. At level 60 this is WIL+60 Ice Magical damage for 70/2 FP. Painful.
If you happen to have the dragon trio, all of its stats barring Vit get a +3 should he be summoned. Oh, Seiryuu also gets that too. Immune to ice, with a 25% Fire Weakness.
Chun
45% WIL, 70% CEL, 95% DEF, 50% RES, 100% VIT.
His skill attack is Fire jet, dealing WIL+Chun Level Fire Magical damage to all enemies in a line 5. 10 FP, 3 M. It also leaves behind Cinder Tiles which do half that damage for each step on them. At level 60 thats WIL+60 fire magical damage for 70/2 FP. Leaving behind Cinder tiles that deal (WIL+60)/2 unresistable fire damage should you run over them, or be shoved over them.
If you happen to have the dragon trio, all of its stats barring Vit get a +3 should he be summoned. Oh, Seiryuu also gets that too. Immune to Fire, with a 25% Ice Weakness.
Hatsu
75% WIL, 70% CEL, 85% DEF, 40% RES, 80% VIT
Acid Jet is a 10 FP, 3 M skill that deals Magical Acid Damage in LINE 5 to all enemies for WIL+HATSU level. It also reduces targets defense and res by 2 for 3 rounds. At level 60 thats 70/2 FP, 3 M, and it deals WIL+60 Acid Magical Damage.
If you happen to have the dragon trio, all of its stats barring Vit get a +3 should he be summoned. Oh, Seiryuu also gets that too. Immune to Acid, with a 25% Water Weakness.
One of these, on its own, isn't that bad... However, it starts to get hectic, and even to OP levels whenever a Summoner brings out 6 of these guys. Even then, it's somewhat manageable because the AI is .kind. of bad though if they swarm you have 0 escape chance and will take atleast 1/4th to 1/3rd of your health away in a single hit while tossing a generally debilitating status effect on you. If the summoner is smart, and faster, they can simply SKIP. Should you get close at all, they can drag you back to the summons, or summon new ones to be right beside him at the end of the round.
"Counter Skipping" won't work to combat this either, because you WILL be swarmed if you do that.
This isn't even the worst of the problems. The summoner can, and more than likely will, Summon Storm 6 out then combat alongside them. Sure it costs FP but if they're an Evoker they can Charge Mind, Blue Potion, Magaisendo. or if they want to be more 'denial' based, Charge Mind, Move, Sear. Etc. If they're an LB they can move to give their Summons healing. Tactician? Let's give all those youkai some extra move baby! That way they can swarm faster than before.
Hell, if they're simply a GS/Mage they can royally screw you. They can simply skip if they're faster, Blink past you, then Swap Position so that you're closer to the SWARM of youkai that is more-than-likely following you.
Youkai need to have their skill power reduced, higher FP cost, SOMETHING. SOMETHING to make them not have 300-500 HP .per. youkai that a person has to run through. A summoner can have 3 out and not lose any FP. That is the equivalent of summoning 3 bad AI allies but it can break the fight towards your favor.
This would still drain FP, but it would DEFNITELY make certain things less... overpowering, while the summoner will have (10-12) youkai they can pick-and choose their best via the 5 choices or summon storm 6 ones out at random. It's a trade off.
With this in mind, Unsummoning youkai needs to cost 0 for the first, and 1 for the second. so on, and so on. This way a summoner gains more viability without having to herp derp around with the momentum loss.
I dunno, the popular idea that I remember is increasing their maintenance costs by 1 FP per 5 levels. So at level 30, it's 11 FP per round per Youkai, at level 60, it's 17 FP per Youkai.
I really dislike the Momentum suggestion because it means Summon Storm = I can't even unsummon my Youkai.
As I suggested Neus, with THAT, un-summoning Youkai gets changed to 0 M for the 1st one in a round, then 1 M for the 2nd, etc.
If you were to increase the maintenance cost per youkai, while it would make them more costly, it would also mean all that one would have to do to win is simply run around in a circle for... 17*6... 3 rounds, if that.
If youkai get an increase in maintenance, I would suggest adding a skill along the lines of "increase your FP by X for every youkai you have out" and making summon storm summon youkai randomly within a general range instead of anywhere on the map. This way you give summon storm a bit more reliability to make up for the AI and the whole "I can move twice for several turns and drain all your FP and your Youkai will probably spawn on the opposite side of the map anyway".
This would create a noticeable difference between a full summoner and Mages that summon youkai while casting their normal magic since having high level Youkai with summon storm would basically mean "Maintain this or your FP is gonna run dry in a few turns" and there would be no way you could maintain 6 youkai on top of casting mini nukes.
This also makes silence useful against a summoner (did I mention silent prayer needs to be a changed a bit? maybe having a long cooldown but instead of curing silence it could prevent silence for a few turns) and would add a bit more of a counter to them since they get a large defensive buff from astral aegis.
Or just change the passives already in place to make you regenerate more or give you more max FP in the first place. If you have both FP regenerating abilities that's 15 per round. Add capacity, that's 17. One level 60 youkai is taken care of. You basically can't summon any more or your FP will be destroyed, fast. Unless you're a Lich. Which I don't think is really fair to any other race that wants to summon. That's just me though.
I would be in favor of Summoners having their Grand Summoner trait give MaxFP*0.01 regen per rank up to a maximum of MaxFP*0.05 regen. Put a cap on it of Rank*5 and it should probably be good-to-go for increased FP costs, though it should probably only work fully if you have a youkai out and at half power if not.
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