[Joseph Jostar]

Don't have particularly a lot to say. At some point, Eviter was changed so that it didn't function with bare fists (whether as a matter of sensibility or game balance, I'm not sure.) While it's sensible for most cases, martial artists and the anime-esque aesthetic of the game can differ in that regard. So, I thought I'd bring up the topic again.

The suggestion, in short: Allow the Duelist skill 'Eviter' to be used to parry attacks with Bare Fists again, with the requirement of taking ranks in the Martial Artist's 'Empty Palm' innate (much the same way as 'Protection From Arrows' allows you to parry bow attacks.)

I don't have any particular balance reason for the suggestion, I don't think it'll really shake the meta either, it's just a matter of anime-style blade catching and other badasseries. A reduced chance to proc with bare fists certainly wouldn't be unreasonable, though to be perfectly honest Eviter as a whole could probably use some tweaking for how powerful its effect is. (But that's a whole another topic.)

[Nanovelich]

Bare Fists were unique in that they could get multiple Critical-based Momentum (including Fleur) gains in a single round without limitation, unlike any other weapon. Hence, that change, pretty sure.

If I remember correctly though, that was fixed because of Styx Shout being able to accomplish pretty much the same thing?

I don't recall exactly, but my verdict on this is either a 'yay' or a 'nay' depending on the answer to that.

+1 if Bare Fists don't have their Momentum cheese still.
-1 if they do.

[Rendar]

Bare Fists still have their Momentum cheese (so long as you crit someone that doesn't have the fleur status already).

You can only get it once per thing, tho.

[Lolzytripd]

....

but you can eviter with bare fists right now on server

https://i.gyazo.com/2aeac29d84776d2e0ee1...c7f44a.png

[Nanovelich]

Well, shows why I shouldn't rush out a reply to these threads in the morning. I wasn't thinking of Eviter.

So, disregard previous post.

[Lolzytripd]

Bare Fists still have their Momentum cheese (so long as you crit someone that doesn't have the fleur status already).

You can only get it once per thing, tho.

Oh and from experiance and testing (6 seconds ago)

Barefists stll gain the base +1 crit momentum when you hit a person thats fluer'd, infact, bare fists gains +1 crit momentum, every crit, all the time, regardless of how many times I've already crit (even critting the same enemy multiple times)

[Raigen.Convict]

Momentumneck. This makes me want to punch things now. Because why in the world would bare fist be that good? Unless we balance it into a small weapon mechanic...

[Rendar]

It's only "super good" if you are hitting a lot of things and can crit said things. In terms of how useful it would actually be, you'd need to be fighting 5+ enemies and pull off a styx shout with bare fists.

Also, bare fists don't get weapon upgrades, enchantments, good scaling, or weapon parts. Soooo.

[Lolzytripd]

As rendar said its hilarious momentum gain, and that much momentum is only possible vs jammer alphas


but its actual usefullness in any meaningful combat.

players, youkai, things you run into pvp, have enough crit defense that even with 5+ targets its unreliable.

in pve, sure it works half the time, but aoe magic is much, much , much more efficent.

I need to spam styx twice or cast death knighting to match magic aoe's

[Snake]

This is fine. Bare Fists don't have anything special, anyway. Basic attacking with no weapon in actual combat against metafuckers will be guaranteed to do less than 30 damage, 90% of the time.

This can easily just be a damned feature.