[Swift_kusura]

So it's evident that hexer is designed to be able to weaken the state of its opponent, this much is clear, but one move in particular is granted a ton of perks that overwhelm the odds against certain opponents

So lets look, Black Bubble takes only 1 point in the class to literally nullify your status res, and your crit evade, and if you're lucky enough to be a priest you also lose your ability to fight, this move has no cooldown and even if it did the tiles last several turns

I propose that instead of it remove faith, dark water instead makes your status res and crit evasion count as being 0 faith, where as the actual stat remains untouched, because since the great reckoning faith is a damage output for priests

A spell that takes 0 stats, no tome, no cool down, and 1 class point. Should -not- be able to silence, nerf priest damage nerf crit evasion nerf status resistance and still do a lot of damage if you're actually supposed to be casting spells, or you can be a kensei and just turn that crit evasion into death for your opponent while they flail uselessly trying to get out of the water with their nerfed stats.

[Dezark]

While I can understand where this is coming from a key thing to look at is what the two classes are made for; priest is a defensive class that was made to support their allies in teams, the backbones as the healers to where a good priest can keep you standing and safe from the fate of death (Or KO in this sense) in the heat of battle. They're often paired commonly with Black Knights as to be a steadfast wall in the enemy face and often forcing the battle to shift to their control with sanctuary and black wind; increasing their own defenses while raising their opponents battle weight often effecting their MV and making the fight difficult for them. The first common thing when you fight a priest is to keep them out of this as it counteracts classes like fire Evokers who main Combo is to go sear/explosion. Against most opponents priest can hold their own in a fight while still dishing out heavy damage to some despite being what was meant as a support class. Hexers are a class that made entirely to debuff and control the battlefield; they're given a number of innovcations that will harm your opponents for attacking, healing, casting any general spells, and can force your opponent to decide if they want to move and lose the ability to attack, or reverse wise lose the ability to move by attacking. Another key tool to a Hexer is the curses at their control, they can turn a high dodge build useless with a curse to make it so they can always be hit, they can take away a class ability to heal and turn it against them, and they can inflict a poison while making it impossible to cure if someone lacks the ability for such. Black Bubble is an ability made to target mages and priests particular, typically for a mage it means taking away their ability to cast spells due to silence and for most, that is a disadvantage depending on what their build is, for a priest this ability is deadly because it takes away their faith and depending on the build itself; is a disadvantage if your weapon of choice is a faith scaling weapon such as Shine Sword or Chorus. Typically between a matching of thanks, depending on race alone you hold the chance to generally out-speed a Hexer on the first round which leaves you with two choices, you can either A. Rush your opponent and hit them with any spells/skills in your arsenal, or B. Set up defensively with a sanctuary and possibly even begin an invocation of your own. in Most scenarios you would go with option B. as option A. puts you in the face of the Hexer and allows them more options to their combos. Depending on the class combo used by the Hexer themselves their approach will be different; in the scenario of a Hexer/Priest combo, they would do a similar approach to what option B. is, set up a sanctuary to fight you on their own terms, and then litter the battlefield with Earthbound Fog, Spirit Pain, or Earthbound Vengeance. If your fighting a Hexer on their terms alone, you shouldn't be in their face off the bat without your own set up especially when your trying to go offensive with a class combo made for defensive and supportive capabilities. I can see perhaps putting a CD of a round or two on Black Bubble if it doesn't have such to make it so the skill isn't able to be used constantly for whatever reason; but the faith loss is there to cancel out a priest ability to laugh and sit there simply guarding and grafting, it meant to be a disadvantage to priests both mechanically and in the sense that the darkness has overtaken the light. Hexers can do the same thing to a Kensei by applying Fellel's Fumble and Pilsfa's Masochism to their target, making it impossible for them to hit or dodge. There plenty of ways to counteract a Hexer rather than turning for a nerf on one of their commonly used skills; and i'm sure any of community who are avid in PvP could provide truth to that and help you discover such.

[Swift_kusura]

Look black bubble does -5- effects all in one for 1 class point.

Lets not have it shut down a class completely when that wasn't how it was originally intended before faith became a damage stat.

[Dezark]

Black bubble does it effects, it hits those that use Faith in their weapons, spells, and summoners since less faith cuts you off from your summons, it also an effect that hits everyone no matter who; both caster and target. I realize the position it putting you in but if you aim to run that class combo you need to do such defensively, if you want to stick with with being a tank priest, i'd suggest swapping out BK for Evoker and going Priest/Earth Evoker, your given a tool that you can often hit them once, magnetize and then drag them into you for a lot damage while being stuck in your sanctuary with you, and you have Evoker handy dandy magic eraser (Magaisendo) and can remove the black water tiles that are under and around you in a 3x5 range, leaving your opponent with either the option of getting out distance before you can hit them with a harder spell, or taking the time to continue with their normal rotation and below is a picture stating as well about black water tiles effecting everyone. It doesn't specifically say it only effects the opponents. The only things specifically toward enemies is silence and the damage taken.
  blackbubble.png (Size: 25.23 KB / Downloads: 2,624)

[Swift_kusura]

But the original intent of this spell was prior to great reckoning, where faith did not weaken the priest in question, thus greatly empowering it more against them than it was before.

[Dezark]

Alright what your saying though is to leave something that priest and a few other classes recently, have come to use in hand; specifically with faith weapons; I won't shift you away from your goal with this, I stated my peace on it; my advice still stands as I stated, follow it or not; I honestly don't give a rat's flying rear. it a spell that effects *Everyone* Not only priests on it, my advice is to swap out your weapon to match your scaling so even if a hexer thinks "Ha ha ha ha now they can't hit me" you can thwack them in the face with a 120 mythslayer like I did on my destiny BK and just make them regret their day. That my opinion on it; I'm not aiming to say your wrong, or that you shouldn't do what build your doing so don't think that please. I only suggested what I did and potential ideas to speak with any of the players who PvP like crazy, I know a few that test different builds and often learn what can be a con to a class combo, but once again this is only my opinion and you can take it however you wish. Have a good day Swift.

[Lonestar]

I'm not sure about touching Black Water. It's a decent counter for status resist stackers, Priests and Hexer's only silence. I think it's fine the way it is.

If you're having problem as a Priest, use Sanctuary. They have that to not worry with tiles anymore, and there's also a foot equip that reduces the effects of Dark Water by half. And also requires positioning so you don't kill your own FAI as well.

I'm up for no change on this one, they already got the scaling gutted and all of the class' gimmick is the debuffs.

[Raigen.Convict]

I'm gonna just slap this here and say that black bubble can be walked out of, sure it's a 3 m waste but it's worth it if you're a priest/summoner, secondly, if you're an evoker, that silence is the only crippling thing about it when silence can be cured in numerous ways anyway, and is status inflict based. What I suggest is we go with the idea that was suggested some time ago that allows CERTAIN mage spells to be usable past silence at reduced power so their ability to fight back is not destroyed entirely.

[Snake]

Never had a problem with Black Bubble as a Black Knight/Priest.

Charge + NYOOOOM to the other side of the map + Silent Prayer. It's all just relative counterplay. You'll NEVER win against a Hexer if you're a doomwall locked in place who never wants to move around the battlefield for tactical advantage, buddy.

[Fern]

To be honest, I have never seen Black Bubble shut down a Priest with ease before. The only times I've seen it happen are when the Priest stays within position without packing any form of status resist or even silent prayer- and Priests are usually packing over 160%+ status resist. I think this doesn't really need any form of change at the moment, specially when there's many ways around it:

A) Positioning yourself in such a way that prevents the enemy from using Strangling Etacof in the same round.
B) Running far, far away.
C) Sanctuary, the most common choice.
D) Heron Feather, the -1 silence duration accessory.
E) Status resist, which Priests usually have due to almost always building FAI/SAN at once.
F) Sanctified Boots, which halve the effects of black water.
G) If you happen to be a Galren Evoker, you may as well blast off the water tiles with Magaisendo if you really need to. But you can usually just walk/blink away.