[Autumn]

People are greatly overreacting to something that is very clearly a nerf except in situations where the Tarnada user gets very unlucky. The RNG contributed a lot to how powerful Tarnada was, because getting a Vydel on your first/second attack was a huge advantage. Now it is predictable and can even be interrupted with Null Shell/Steal. Acting like it's a buff in any sense is just silly.

Overreacting? Sure, I can give that, but the concerns being raised shouldn't be dismissed so easily either, as the core part of why you getting hit by the Tarnada was not changed in the slightest, in short you still get knocked down on the other side of the map probably, or even knocked back into Sidecut range if you're extremely unlucky in some cases like this.

(By the way the person I'm facing in this screenshot has at least 50 scaled DEF and RES)

But the thing is, its clearly a buff in some fashion because you -can- predict it, the RNG is missing yes but that doesn't matter because you're still evening out on the average chance it had of actually proccing the vydel itself. (1 in 4 hits) This isn't even counting multi targetting attacks like Sidecut which will stack the thing even faster.

And now because you can predict it, if your opponent gets unlucky with nulls (because those can only null 1-2 statuses at a time sans Null Shell) or unlucky with steal, or just doesn't have those tools to start with, the Vydel is inevitable and is going to completely wreck them if the Tarnada user is stacking even a little bit of wind ATK and/or has Talvyd. Which Talvyd is an optional part of using the weapon because the vydel FREE DAMAGE on a weapon that's clearly one of the best in the game.



This is your average Tarnada build stat wise, its hard stacking the hell out of a defensive stat like CEL just for initiative so it can go first, while getting dodge on top of it, its running a mage sub-class (usually hexer) so it can get Talvyd and disrupt everyone on the field. While dealing the most damage out of any sword because it has really high base power with 100% total scaling, 10% more crit than other swords, 10% more accuracy than other swords, and enough weight to hit 2hand with ease. (This sword also scales 50% off of a DEFENSIVE stat.)

My build specifically uses Kensei which is not the most optimal for it, instead you want to run Ghost for fair and balanced Scarlet Twister to pull everyone close and then sidecut through the line so that Vydel can proc on everyone and deal tons and tons of damage, on top of dealing more crit damage than a VA can top off any day of the week. While probably knocking everyone over because Talvyd exists again.



This is the damage I am able to pull with Basic attacks with no bloody palms amplifier yet.

Quite frankly I'm not a fan of 'just null or steal' being its counterplay, thats a HUGE chore to play against a duelist which is a high damage class, and if you try to go for that trade you'll lose every single time because that momentum trade is not worth it, its not worth it to null or steal off the status. And that is another reason why the change being made is not good, its free damage no matter how you look at it or approach it, on top of being the best sword.

[Mewni]

And that's why Slydria did suggest it to be castable after stacking it, making you use 3 momentum at least. It would still be very strong yes, but not a free 300 damage every other turn [one turn you wont, the other you will]. It definitely wasn't a nerf, it stops the R0 Vydel memes sure, but now its assured R1, R3,R5 [Are you still alive? doubt it]. Unless you are build to crit evade, rarely a MG will go first than a Tarnada user too, me being one with a lot of Cel stacked can go first but i'll have to debuff them for a bit beforehand, and believe me, just that one round of debuffing means i'll eat a Vydel already, then having to upkeep every turn nulling just in case i don't go first for a reason or another.

[Snake]

The stacking system is fine. What's not fine is how fast it will stack up given there are methods that not even someone hard-focused on counterplaying it can deal with. A pretty easy one is Crash Potion. Pop that, and enjoy using Vydel every time 4 enemies are within your range.

If you believe that's not possible or situational? Scarlet Twister has just the right thing to allow you do that.

Besides. You can't reliably Steal from people. It costs 6M 'total'. 3M to move towards the enemy, 3M to steal. This round you did no damage at all, and you're left in Tarnada range. So the swordsman in question can go for the good ol 3-hit-combo thanks to Fleur.

Null Shell costs 6M to prepare and fire, and if you go against Kensei, it will just proc Blade Barrier. Again, not as optimal and you're wasting time, time your Tarnada enemy user will use to dice you apart. So, as I've said. It's fine, but it needs to slow down considerably to not be a game-breaker in PvP.

The final word will be yours, but please, re-considerate the many ways it can be abused to the point it stops being a nerf.

[Autumn]

At the very least can we limit the stacking vs players or have it so the Tarnada's vydel can't go off while silenced? The free invoke is a huge momentum shift, Vydel is already an invocation worth casting on its own and its mandatory 9m, while with the sword you swing 4 times and you get it for free, which is averaging around 2.25 extra momentum per every crit.

If we can at least do either of these, it'd have more counterplay than just, null it off.

[Kameron8]

There's nothing left to add to this that hasn't been said over and over again. The weapon has better-than-the-rest base stats to go with good scaling, and has an effect that trumps most others in raw efficiency and damage. The nerf stops people from high-rolling with the effect, but instead gives them the foresight to plan for their procs. It's still the best sword to use 99% of the time, and neither adding changes to Black Knight to mitigate On-Critical effects nor allowing Steal/Null to strip the status do anything to address the underlying issues with its power in relation to other swords and weapons.

If that much power is afforded to items that are ten stars, the rest of the weapons in the game certainly do not reflect it. It's hardly knee-jerk reactions, it's just trivial comparisons of numbers.