[Maksimum_Fire]

Really simple topic.  Twin dance only applies on basic attack and sub attack commands.  No skills, like Cuthroat, Hanging, Pinball, Warp Strike, Sidecut, Sillcut, Geldoren, or many many more have any effect when used with twin dance.  We just kinda magically forget that we can attack with two weapons if we're performing the slightest complicated maneuver.

I'd really like to see this change and I don't see a lot of reason for it not to change, though my ears are open.

[EenKogNeeto]

'When you Attack or Sub-Attack while you have two Dagger weapons equipped, you will attack with the other'

You don't forget, its intentional. Its not a dance if you're taking time to do the other techniques.
It limits how often you can get the extra momentum easily and makes you think about things a bit.

[Autumn]

With how good skills like cutthroat or hanging can be, I'm not partial to allowing those skills to be able to twin dance, its already really good as is.

[Trexmaster]

This would get out of hand (hah) fast if you could suddenly double dip on skills with extra damage effects (power gradation, geldoren, -> ether invitation <- (big red flag), checkmate, and any other melee-friendly skill i'm forgetting) or skills that offer lucrative on-hit effects that reward multiple hits or simply makes for better odds in your favor if it gets to dip twice (cutthroat, ritual sword, wazabane (you mad man) , couloir, hanging). Quick rundown on logic being: extra damage, more attacks made with the skill's boosted hit/crit, more chances to inflict the skill's status, and extra bonus effects applied by the skills.

While there isn't a huge assortment of skill-based basic attacks it's also opening up new possibilities to consider if any new ones are made to have to keep in mind Twin Dance being able to make it activate twice if this happened.

[Maksimum_Fire]

I don't forget that it's intentional, Een, I just think it's a little silly. I'd also argue that 'dancing' is meant to be an elegant affair, and not simply 'attack, sub attack, attack, sub attack, rinse repeat eight thousand times'.

If certain skills would get out of hand, why not just curate those skills as needed? Make bonus damage or special effects only apply to the first attack. Restricting it to attack/sub attack because some skills would be tricky to balance with it feels like throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

With its current restrictions, Couloir wouldn't serve a purpose with twin dance, as you'd be attacking outside of melee ranger. Hanging has always been strong and always will be strong, is my understanding, and making it much more accessible to two-handers compared to dualwielders doesn't make much sense to me. If special effects from Hanging applied to the first hit, but not the second hit, I think it'd be perfectly fine.

[Maksimum_Fire]

Follow up post, since I realized I had thoughts unspoken.

Spo, I wouldn't call twin dance 'very good'.

I would say that outside of weapons and builds prepared specifically for twin dance(like Tessens, daggers that do two 50% elemental procs, or Golgorth), Twin Dance can't even begin to match up to fleur. As a passive, if you want to make use of it, it pigeonholes you into trying to keep as close to an opponent as possible and just repeatedly use only two skills because of that lack of synergy. Sometimes you'll finish a combo with a Skill, but you'll almost never initiate a combo with a skill- outside of Vanishing Strike. This especially applies in kitey matchups, which I think Twin Dance needs to perform better in.

[Autumn]

It matches up to fleur by allowing you to double dip on unsure hit chances and critical chances, with usage of low momentum mobility or skills such as dagger incise you can still follow up a botched attack with another action that assists you in a way that fleur could not have. If you want to make sure that the attack does reasonable damage you can absolutely do so by pairing it with on-hits like you just mentioned. The meme-tastic CM Overtime build with twin Tessens is fully capable of shitting out 1-2k damage in a singular round depending on how holy weak your target is.

Relevant enchants such as Volcanic Seed and Rampaging also benefit from this fairly well, both fleur and twin dance have great different strengths but serve functionally the same purpose, twin dance is better when it succeeds while fleur is strictly worse when it doesn't succeed, so you end up with a risk vs reward sort of deal.

[Maksimum_Fire]

Volcanic enchant applies only once per turn regardless of how many attacks, and making both enchantments just feels like a pitfall. Rampaging only gets two stacks, total, so it's fully stacked off of the first basic attack. There are advantages to that, but it's not such a big deal as I think is implied here.

Also, Elemental Overtime builds are silly and need to be recognized as a meme build, not something that actually dominates in the meta. Typically they involve Shock Collar for Impure Element, a strategy that's easily thwarted by Burn status or simply by going before the Overtimer, and it's a build that requires squishy stats, and a 6m buff. On top of that, you need to hit your target, crit your target, and your target needs to not resist either lightning or wind or your physical damage type. Then, and only then, if you didn't have to move more than a few squares to get into range, you can burst in some damage on a single target.

Compare with an Isenshi bot that can quite easily shit out 1k damage per turn in a wide area with HSDV, or, with Charge Mind, which is a better comparison: literally do more than three thousand damage in an AoE. And you don't rely on Crits, or even on proper hits- you just lost 300 to 900 damage from evasion- and even if someone Resists you, you still pop your combo off. And it can do all this while running tank stats.

I think it's just unreasonable to call a VA/Evo meme build that catches people off-guard from time to time and is easily shut down as meta-defining enough to imply Twin Dance applying on basic attack skills would be too scary, especially since the only skill that'd get applied for that combo would be Cutthroat. This is a minor, quality of life change, that lets you initiate such combos with skills instead of sticking to only unga bunga basic/sub attacks.

And on the flipside from giving leeway for botched hits or crits, fleur gives leeway against elemental resistance. Even if someone resisted your Slash hanging, you have 2m of leeway to flex around. They have strengths in different areas and weaknesses in different areas, but fleur is just universally applicable because it applies to basic attack skills and not just basic attack/sub attack.

What would Fleur be like if it didn't apply to sidecut, hanging, warp strike, pinball, cutthroat, geldoren- all of those skills?

[Autumn]

And on the flipside from giving leeway for botched hits or crits, fleur gives leeway against elemental resistance. Even if someone resisted your Slash hanging, you have 2m of leeway to flex around. They have strengths in different areas and weaknesses in different areas, but fleur is just universally applicable because it applies to basic attack skills and not just basic attack/sub attack.

What would Fleur be like if it didn't apply to sidecut, hanging, warp strike, pinball, cutthroat, geldoren- all of those skills?

Yes fleur may give an advantage when dual wielding weapons of different weapon types or may give access to 4m abilities such as eclair lacroix, this makes fleur stronger in its own ways separate from dagger dance, however strictly speaking damage wise dagger dance wins, its 20% of the attack power of the other hand's weapon, now unmitigated by armor as hard as before. You can't just give that utility to other skills as Kameron mentioned above, gap closers like sidecut and hanging are already very strong, on top of abilities like Ether Invitation and Geldoren and repel doubling down on their effects suddenly which could spell disaster.

Fleur trades damage for the ability to apply to every basic attack skill currently available, and I'm not open to the idea of nerfing every skill in the game to accommodate for one unnecessary change.

[Maksimum_Fire]

I think you missed my comment earlier. I don't think Dagger Dance should just get the massive damage amplification from Ether Invitation or the FP sapping strength of Ritual Sword. It can just stay as an extra 20% basic attack damage every the skill, without those skill effects.

And while you comment on Fleur while dualwielding weapons, you're not addressing the fact that Fleur allows you to simply use one weapon and benefit from full swing. 20 SWA is a sizable increase to not only basic attacks, but to autohits, as well. Twin dance struggles with damage in any sort of traditional setup because of this, and already pigeonholes itself away from autohits(or at least, from getting any real damage out of autohits).

Fleur trades a small amount of damage after basic attacks for much more build flexibility- which can be tanky stats and damage reflection(Mirror shield/guard with Shields), damage matching or beyond what dagger dance achieves with potentially better utility(2hand and glove, which also gives bonus hit) or the ability to perform combos that aren't possible without it- combos that require 10m or more, like you mentioned. Fleur is infinitely more versatile, and outshines twin dance for the plain and simple reason that it's much easier to use, more reliable, and doesn't force you into specific options. And even in optios that Twin Dance can shine in, Fleur can often shine just as well in- especially with the minimal support that twin dance has.

Remember to read the previous posts; I'm not suggesting that all effects are duplicated. I'm suggesting Twin Dance work as it does now, and just function as a bonus, 20% damage basic attack after basic attacking skills. I don't think that's unreasonable, it just makes the flow of combat for dualwielders more intuitive.