[Perdition]

Something tangentially related, but, I would also like to see transformations in general unable to be nulled. It feels very bad to especially invest in the Knighting abilities to know that someone can land a lone bullet, throw a rock at you, etc. and just delete your cool anime form--in the case of the Knighting abilities, you likely spent 9 momentum accomplishing that just for them to use 3 undoing it--perhaps even damaging you simultaneously.

[Shujin]

Welcome to counterplay.

I am all for "Limit Break" skills. Demon translation(Light) itself I rather make not generally accessible and give it to DH.
Transformation skills are fun, but I feel if its TOO easily accessible it might take a bit from its 'magic' away.
Item effects are fine though I guess, I am just thinking that a trait would mayhaps be too much, unless its something "smaller".

Like entering a state where you get a few stats/damage/defense bosts, in exchange for consistent FP loss/higher skill costs would be fine. I agree with "non-invocation" though.
Custom buff, would also be cool as heck.

[Sawrock]

I agree with Shujin; Fern's theory of "everyone feeling samey" would be more prevalent if this was just a trait. Having it be an item would definitely be a good cost as long as there's a balancing factor.

I also think null shell not functioning against it is sort of... like, what's the point of null shell if it flat-out doesn't work against specifics, then? There should be some sort of strategy to this- you shouldn't be able to throw on your form willy-nilly, and having to take out the magic gunner or something similar first could make for good tactical moments. In fact, I'm more in the camp that not just null shell, but a large amount of damage should be able to cancel the form, too- like some sort of injury-based deal, like when the villain goes to the hero and crushes their leg and they power down.

As for not being able to be used in spars, I don't quite understand that logic either- if it's to make it seem special and shiny, that itself will wear away when every character build uses one out of meta necessity or, if it's regulated to item status, out of it being made use of for special builds that have a clear OOC workings to make it function. If it's more about IC and how you shouldn't be able to just danger transform when there's no danger, that's limiting the potential of the transformation: what if someone wants to RP having their armor chip off to get a boost of speed, or having their disguise broken as a petty thief?

I really didn't want to post because my opinions are so contrary to many in the thread, so my apologies for being rude to any of you. I just had to get
this
off
my
chest.

[Snake]

No rudeness received on my side (especially when you're singing truths that I may have oversighted-), I've just been wondering of ways we could get this less 'theoretically' implemented and a final product that only needs to be taken from this forum, shined a bit and then tossed in the pipeline.

Item effects, class-unique transformations... All of those seem like massive work for little yield given it will limit people to only picking those if they want a specific RP quirk, and even then, I don't think Dev can please everyone if we're after something more personal.

Another plan I had was to make Custom Buffs or special transformations to be application-only, perhaps with a rule of 'only one transformation character per forum key'. With an exception if this character is some form of villain or what-gives.

I don't know, back to pondering over 'what ifs' to me until something more physical comes out of the apeiron.

[Shujin]

Honestly? I personaly do not mind an more "Exclusive" attempt like that. I generally think that people should be able to work for their "little extra", and that apps like that should very much be more than just a little fluff, aslong as there is RP backing it up. Special skills and Items alike.

However, that obviously makes it even more of a pain to code, I'd assume. But that way its atleast still "Exclusive" and special... Just tied to Admin working on approving it/coding it, and as cool as that is I am not sure if we are all ready for that as a whole. Though I also haven't witnessed any real developments for the past year and just snowed in here and there to test new toys before hopping off again, so mayhaps my point of view is just not updated enough.

[Autumn]

What I'm looking for here is mostly an excuse to roleplay transformations that isn't just only an aesthetic feature, some sort of skill that would give you a buff that explains going beyond normal means, like I mentioned in the OP, I do not expect a global transformation-type ability to be overtly powerful, and would rather it be a special ability that would simply give me an excuse to roleplay the way I'd prefer to.

For example this could be a 10 star item effect of like a ring or helmet, this would probably fit in most people's builds regardless of their class and weapon setup, and also have a cost of 1 of your 10 star item slots.

[Perdition]

Null shell already works against just about every other buff in the game. You can even null/dispel knockdown immunity, unmarkable, etc. off of people. The ease of which you can erase transformation type skills now leads to them being more undesirable than not most of the time. It'd be one thing if the means to delete people's transformations were limited, but anyone (and most competent people do) carry the magic stone that lets you dispel people's shit. Why would you ever bother using 9 momentum to transform when anyone at a moment's notice can undo it for 3m?

There's a difference between counterplay and oppression.

[Shujin]

Null shell is one of the few reasons why MG is actually very good. Its part of the versatility of its kit, but this isn't really the thread to disucss this.

10* accesory slot item, would be fine I guess. My main concern is mostly that everyone and their mother would go for it then, taking away from what makes transformation skills feel special and unique. I like trans skill like everyone else but I also feel like its rarity makes it something cool.

So I am pretty much on Saws opinion here. as cool as I think this would be, I am quite torn on it if I'd really want it to be a thing like that.

[Sawrock]

I do want to also clarify that I agree with you, Perdition, that the magic rock thing is specifically matadorshit.

[Perdition]

Yeah I think sustaining a large amount of damage to undo it like Sawrock mentioned earlier is a cool way to go about counterplay. Me bringing those things up is less about MG and more to say that I think this idea is cool, but it also highlights some issues around transformations as a whole that would need to be addressed if something like this were to be implemented.

My main point is that if we actually want to see these kinds of transformations used, they shouldn’t be able to outed so easily. They SHOULD be able to be outed, but the current means to put them are so much easier to go about than the actual effort the user puts into transforming.