[Autumn]

Stand Off still scales from WIL despite Magic Gunner having shifted over almost entirely to being GUI and SKI based, I would like to propose that Stand Off should scale off of either of the two. (Preferably GUI)



To note out, WIL simply doesn't mesh with Magic Gunner quite as much anymore, aside from the 1 WIL scaling gun. Since GUI is needed to be at a very high amount to achieve a good number, in this build here, Stand Off being tied to GUI would give me 10% DR (6% when combined with my existing DEF) instead of 3% (1% with my existing DEF)

[Snake]

Should be GUI-based.

[HaTeD]

Why does part of the community claim guile to be very strong, then suggest things like this to buff it even harder?

[Shujin]

Because while its true, it also makes more sense in this case.

Just cause guile currently does alot and is imbalanced, doesn't mean that this particular aspect of it is broken or this change in particular brings much change to it in either direction.
I have no doubts that guile will be eventually changed or other stuff put in to compensate. So fixing some things that feel like an oversight can be adjusted on the way.

So yes I think Stand-off should be Guile based.

[Lolzytripd]

and that we'd like to see a number of changes go through at the same time....

[HaTeD]

my point will stand to be such a high scaling stat offensively should never be allowed to scale defensively

[JamOfBoy]

I suggest giving it an entirely different effect entirely. The WIL into phys def was nice but didn't make much sense - it's a MAGIC gunner, so I thought they'd be inclined to have some sort of resistance to magic.

But, to address the point:

Changing it from WIL to GUI is, frankly, a horrible idea.

50 scaled GUI giving you 10% Phys Def, removing the farshot penalty, making your critical hits do 50% more damage, giving you 10 skill slots, and giving you up to 60 additional hit.
As the kids say? Sheesh.

Even if GUI gets changed sometime in the future to not be so packed full of benefits, this still isn't a good idea - it's capable of facilitating the dreaded dodge tanking Dev fought so tirelessly to nerf. At least with WIL, and old Arcane Gun functionality, since you had to balance or choose between having WIL for extra SWA or GUI for tasty armor-ignoring crit damage, it wasn't so prominent of an issue as you didn't typically have both WIL and GUI in high amounts.

With your suggestion, now with no reason to pick WIL, all Magic Gunners - skill points and slots provided - will get extra physical defence for basically free, if not extremely cheap.

[Snake]

I mean, it's either changing to another stat or making this a lot more significant now that DEF/RES have been nerfed.

Maybe Stand-Off should be reworked into something similar to what Cobra is, giving you the ability to be more slippery as damage comes your way. Or even give the ability to riposte at a distance.

idk

[Miller]

Just make it main class only if it were to be changed to GUI or SKI. I don't see much issue with it if that was the case, given bonus DRs are multiplicative and this only affects physical defense rather than both forms of DR.

[Shujin]

Just make it main class only if it were to be changed to GUI or SKI. I don't see much issue with it if that was the case, given bonus DRs are multiplicative and this only affects physical defense rather than both forms of DR.

This. even at 50scaled guile you do not get 10%DR. 
to the rest I have no particular strong opinion, its whatever to me.