[Poruku]

I don't like the idea of capping damage or limiting seed combinations. The issue is just the actual damage values of noble seeds so why not simply nerf their damage?

The only issue here is that lowering the individual damage punishes those who didn't abuse stacking on 3 damage seeds before, when the issue is simply just that you can stack all of them together.

But replacing a damage seed with a hex seed simply lowers your damage proportionally. As it stands people are using just noble seeds because the noble seeds are the strongest ones. I don't understand your point of how stacking just damage is the issue, when stacking enough debuffs would also be broken if the debuffs were strong enough. For instance if noble seeds did 30/45/60% you would end up with a 100 swa/235 ele atk spell (I believe the base is 100?). Still good, but you're using everything on damage, it has a cooldown and it has the opportunity cost of being a custom tome. Then the choices become more fair. Do I put a level 10 burn instead of that 30% fire atk to help out my physical damage? Then you would simply end up with a 205% atk spell with burn, which is not huge but it's still more damage than any normal spell with a small bonus.

I think as long as the values are balanced, there's no need to limit seed usage to certain categories

[Autumn]

I don't like the idea of capping damage or limiting seed combinations. The issue is just the actual damage values of noble seeds so why not simply nerf their damage?

The only issue here is that lowering the individual damage punishes those who didn't abuse stacking on 3 damage seeds before, when the issue is simply just that you can stack all of them together.

But replacing a damage seed with a hex seed simply lowers your damage proportionally. As it stands people are using just noble seeds because the noble seeds are the strongest ones. I don't understand your point of how stacking just damage is the issue, when stacking enough debuffs would also be broken if the debuffs were strong enough. For instance if noble seeds did 30/45/60% you would end up with a 100 swa/235 ele atk spell (I believe the base is 100?). Still good, but you're using everything on damage, it has a cooldown and it has the opportunity cost of being a custom tome. Then the choices become more fair. Do I put a level 10 burn instead of that 30% fire atk to help out my physical damage? Then you would simply end up with a 205% atk spell with burn, which is not huge but it's still more damage than any normal spell with a small bonus.

I think as long as the values are balanced, there's no need to limit seed usage to certain categories

There seems to be a miscommunication somewhere, if you lower the damage of those seeds straight up, its going to make utilizing only one of those seeds even weaker, basically pigeon holing them into being stacked together in order to do effective enough damage. In the case of users who would right now only be using say a singular Baron seed alongside a Large Hex Seed and a Small whatever seed (Like Knockback), their spell would deal 100% Elemental ATK + 100% SWA + an additional 75% Elemental ATK.

175% elemental ATK, which partially ignores magic armor, is a decently fair enough thing to face up against, especially when the custom tome spell costs 26 FP and is rather short ranged to boot. It is only when the three seeds mashed together does it become an issue to deal with.

I'm not sure how to amend this issue completely without pissing off someone, but it may have already been expressed that Custom Tomes will be dealt with already, so I'll await and see the update notes.

[Poruku]

There seems to be a miscommunication somewhere, if you lower the damage of those seeds straight up, its going to make utilizing only one of those seeds even weaker, basically pigeon holing them into being stacked together in order to do effective enough damage. In the case of users who would right now only be using say a singular Baron seed alongside a Large Hex Seed and a Small whatever seed (Like Knockback), their spell would deal 100% Elemental ATK + 100% SWA + an additional 75% Elemental ATK.

175% elemental ATK, which partially ignores magic armor, is a decently fair enough thing to face up against, especially when the custom tome spell costs 26 FP and is rather short ranged to boot. It is only when the three seeds mashed together does it become an issue to deal with.

I'm not sure how to amend this issue completely without pissing off someone, but it may have already been expressed that Custom Tomes will be dealt with already, so I'll await and see the update notes.

I'm not sure what is "effective enough damage". A spell purely for hex seeds could also be viable. A mix of damage and hexes can also be viable because the hexes make up for lost damage. If the damage values are balanced around "is the damage too high when they're all stacked?" then stacking them together isn't an issue.

In your example, one large hex seed with damage medium and small would be 225% ele atk with current system, and 175% damage with my proposed values. 225% with the added bonus of a hex is still strong.

In short I'm not sure what you mean. Custom spells are not greater than the sum of their parts.

[Lolzytripd]

There seems to be a miscommunication somewhere, if you lower the damage of those seeds straight up, its going to make utilizing only one of those seeds even weaker, basically pigeon holing them into being stacked together in order to do effective enough damage. In the case of users who would right now only be using say a singular Baron seed alongside a Large Hex Seed and a Small whatever seed (Like Knockback), their spell would deal 100% Elemental ATK + 100% SWA + an additional 75% Elemental ATK.

175% elemental ATK, which partially ignores magic armor, is a decently fair enough thing to face up against, especially when the custom tome spell costs 26 FP and is rather short ranged to boot. It is only when the three seeds mashed together does it become an issue to deal with.

I'm not sure how to amend this issue completely without pissing off someone, but it may have already been expressed that Custom Tomes will be dealt with already, so I'll await and see the update notes.

I'm not sure what is "effective enough damage". A spell purely for hex seeds could also be viable. A mix of damage and hexes can also be viable because the hexes make up for lost damage. If the damage values are balanced around "is the damage too high when they're all stacked?" then stacking them together isn't an issue.

In your example, one large hex seed with damage medium and small would be 225% ele atk with current system, and 175% damage with my proposed values. 225% with the added bonus of a hex is still strong.

In short I'm not sure what you mean. Custom spells are not greater than the sum of their parts.

which is why you limit the sum.
If the problem is three damage seeds, you limit the number of damage seeds you can cook with
currently there is nothing stopping someone from goin 3 noble type damage seeds or 3 wild damage seeds.
the suggested changes would limit custom tomes to 
0-1 noble seeds, 0-1 wild seeds, 0-3 other seeds.


Here are your nerf choices.
A) all seeds lose 25% scaling. This nets -75% elemental attack total.  50-25, 75-25, 100-25 = 150% elemental attack from seeds.
B) We limit how many of each seed type we can have. Baron+Wolf+random effect seed = 100+100= 200% elemental attack, some self damage, and an effect.

[Raigen.Convict]

Noble and Baron seeds now add one turn of cooldown to the tome spell when added.
(having both adds 2 rounds, having 1 adds 1)

[HaTeD]

I don't like the idea of capping damage or limiting seed combinations. The issue is just the actual damage values of noble seeds so why not simply nerf their damage?

Nah its going to be a problem every day they continue to do more than 140% swa +100% elemental attack.

It's a custom spell so the power level should be higher. I think it can absolutely be balanced if it's simply toned down

I believe a custom spell should only be what it is, with creativity. No access to choosing seeds to do damage or multiple effects. It shouldve been just a spell on par with other evoker spells, albeit weaker if they had secondary effects that allowed you to customize the spell name, animation and targeting style. You dont even need to be a mage class to use custom spells, what a f*in twist.