[Shujin]

Verglas since the rework has a lot higher focus on actually comboing you class-skills and allowed you to pick more than one combo into your aresnal effectively thanks to max skillpoints per skill only being 3.

However, since most of them are reliant on each other to even function, you have a massive Skill-pool size. Even building Wil and Skill you barely have enough for Verglas alone, farless if you go a second class. (I have like 40 skills on two classes and I use a sword FB, meaning I barely even touch their skillpool.)

So I want to suggest a Skill in the Verglas tree, that functions Smiliary to how Engineer deals with their own skill slot problem.

So something like. "Verglas skills only cost 0.5 skill pool slots." If you want to connect that to a condition, sure whatever.. Maybe all Kick skills?
But Skillpool is in my opinion the greatest issue that Verglas as a class has right now, about its functionality which kinda railroads you back into just spamming the most effective options and building more efficiently.

Alternatively one could at least make some of their slot skils 2 SP skills with the second one being just a free sloter, though that barely fights the problem.

[sadbot]

My verglas probably has less skill slots than average due to being a no skill luminary build, and I've always had 6/9 verglas attacks slotted along with all of the important utility skills as well. This doesn't really seem like an issue to me. What really railroads you into an efficient no fun spammer now is GR2. MA lacking hit buffs beyond a passive +10 leaves you struggling even when you try to build hit, leaving any half decent verglas just spamming icicle spear until the cows come home.

[Lolzytripd]

My verglas probably has less skill slots than average due to being a no skill luminary build, and I've always had 6/9 verglas attacks slotted along with all of the important utility skills as well. This doesn't really seem like an issue to me. What really railroads you into an efficient no fun spammer now is GR2. MA lacking hit buffs beyond a passive +10 leaves you struggling even when you try to build hit, leaving any half decent verglas just spamming icicle spear until the cows come home.

Maybe adding hit to fox crest?

[sadbot]

Potentially, but I think the issues remain squarely with the GR2 changes. I've ranted about it plenty before, and this isn't the place for it. Unfortunately any kind of reversion of said changes looks very unlikely at this point.

[Shujin]

Not sure how you do that but just the four essential utiltiy slots are 4. I assume you do what I am saying that it railroads you into the only most effective thing, aka Ice spike, Icicle spear, Rapid kick (probably dropped out now after the no evasion change, possibly) and maybe expand ice? Cold Front as flavour skill is also possible, but not needed.
the rest being Chimera(optional in this set up), ice point/IPG Winterbite

BUt thats exactly the issue I am referring to here. It makes Verglas a cookie cutter only one set being really effective kind of thing. and you are also "Skill-based" none basic attack kind, aka high SWA/tank stats type?

if thats the case, you are exactly the type I am referring to. Imo the most efficient but at the same time least fun verglas because you do not actually combo. You just use your most efficient things cause they are flat out better than the combos mixed with the more reliable tank builds that gets away with less stats.

[sadbot]

You got the skill options pretty much right, but I don’t really know what you’re getting at about that being the cookie cutter efficiency set. Those skills can be combod together in all number of ways, and I have the skill slots to equip them and do just that even with less than the average verglas as I said. I still fail to see an issue with skill slots for verglas, almost no class gets to equip ALL of their attacks. My number of skill slots certainly isn’t limiting me and encouraging me to just spam the same stuff, I combo verg skills together all the time in a bunch of different ways.

Or at least I did, until gr2 came along and ACTUALLLY started encouraging me to just spam the same evasion ignore skills non stop.

[Shujin]

I am simply pointing out that you are less the Combo Verglas, but more the spamming of the most efficient moves, meaning you get away with FAR less skill slots, and that is fine.
But that Verglas shouldn't be the one and only viable option, and the more fun/skill heavy option should get a similar treatment to engineer skills in my opinion.

Else we end up cutting away from one of Verglas most fun selling points. Versatility. It gets really slot heavy if you start combining other classes into it.

[Autumn]

Verglas has some clear skill slot issues when it comes down to it, utilizing their kit in the intended class' fantasy will tax you a lot of skill slots very quickly, I'll go over one of my own builds that manages very barely to get over this flaw but not completely:



This character, a papilion with 40 Scaled WIL and 60 scaled SKI, 15 scaled GUI, needs to use a tome to hit the amount of skill slots that I would be comfortable with, and 29 skill slots is a TONNNN of skill slots, like not everyone can achieve that much.

the tome is helpful towards specific spells in Bonder as well as it being a custom tome so I can pump out a knockdown when I need it. It doesn't really excuse that the class takes a massive amount of skill slots, to be clear here is my skill slot allocation:

Summoner: 2

Martial Artist: 6

Bonder: 7

Verglas: 16

Summoner itself and its promos don't tend to take a ton of skill slots, so it fits in well with the setup, but imagine needing that many skill slots on top of being like a Black Knight, Demon Hunter, Evoker or Priest, it doesn't work very well I can tell you that.

People like having variety in their kits and that's understandable, I thought of a way that would still have a cost to the verglas some time ago with a thread that detailed that certain skills in Verglas should have a 2nd rank that makes them cost no skill slots. Very similarly to the OP post.

https://neus-projects.net/forums/showthr...d=7226&

Basically:

Ice Point
Ice Point Guard
Ice Point Greaves

All these skills could have a 2nd rank that have more of a skill point cost for the efficiency of skill slots, there's no reason to not have that imo.

[Shujin]

I'd also add brain freeze to that, for how niche and unreliable it is, but in short. yes. Maybe even Chimera stance.

That would be helping a good deal already. I have a lot of skill points left but no skill slots. It would be nice if I could invest more skillpoints to counter act that massive skillpool at least a little. (I am way over 40 skills though granted, I can do without all obviously. But thats the pain of basic/skill hybrids with two weapons, without even the mercy of the 5 tome slots. Being a human is not helping much. I can post more details if thats desired.)

[sadbot]

I still fail to understand how using 2/3rds of verglas attacks and all the utility besides insulate is ‘spam verglas’, but I can see in practice with the example above that the number of skills can sometimes be restrictive. Given that verglas is pretty skill point light, allowing you to max literally everything with destiny, some skill point for skill slot trades could be nice. Either the good old ‘add an extra point to make this not take up a slot’ or maybe a passive that makes the 3rd skill in a stance 0.5 or free if you already have 2 skills of that stance slotted.