[Ray2064]

I'd argue there is a reason people relying on CEL/Dodging make about half of Korvara's characters if not more while I rarely ever see sheer tanks - though your point about the current test build is fair since I wasn't thinking about it when typing the post, though I doubt that it'll be making through as it is -probably.

[Poruku]

Some adjustments could be made to weapon crit multi but the stats themselves are just fine

hard disagree, building a strength based crit build and guile based crit build should have equal access to defensive options. Instead the guile based crit build gets to do -more- damage by nature of going even deeper into guile than a strength build can truly ever afford,  while keeping an entire stat's worth of investment available for defensive investment.

There's a reason Va/DH is so reliable. guile.


IF guile -has- to retain crit damage for some insane reason.

Increase all weapon crit damage by 50%, reduce guile crit bonus to .5 (yeah this would hurt any crit builds going over 50 scaled guile)

You're looking at the stats in a vaccum. First of all, strength characters get about 120 more health, they generally get +20 damage from two-hand, and they get to wear super heavy armors that are very powerful. Have you ever seen a super tanky guile user?

In the end, a strength-based crit axe ghost/bk will deal similar damage per turn as an average VA/ghost seiryuu spammer, if a bit less, but they are a bit tankier to make up for that. A ghost/VA single dagger fleur deals the same damage too. And keep in mind, that's assuming you don't miss any crits. A dagger build that misses a crit gets hugely fucked, while an axe build isn't hurting that much since base damage is higher.

Then you have bows, which suck ass. You're better off using a crossbow.

And guns deal just ok damage but are rather weak when you don't crit and get mostly carried by magic gunner.

Swords and spears are not made for crit damage, you just want crit for fleur, or sometimes lightning enchant, but these weapons don't require a focus on it.

Fists have trash crit options, they're usually better as SWA machines unless you do weird stuff or use something like a chakram ghost/monk which can be decent.

And WIL? Last I heard tomes were the only wil weapon and whips are hot garbage. Except lightning exists and deals massive damage. I don't think WIL critters are hurting, but tome attacking is just not an archetype that exists.

Here's my point, you are looking at the stats in a vaccum when that isn't where the issue lies. Weapon and stat balance involves the stats yes, but it also involves the actual items, the talents, the classes, the archetypes. Because nothing is ever in a vaccum, everything revolves around archetypes. 

For instance, say you wanted to buff sword, bow and spear critters? You could buff their classes, you could buff the items directly, you could buff the weapon talents. But when you buff a stat, it encompasses EVERYTHING. Buff strength? And suddenly shaitan BK/Hexers or god forbid excel parashu users are even more powerful. You have to consider the entire spectrum and I believe your solutions are just short-sighted.

Not to mention removing crit multi from guile would make it complete trash

[Lolzytripd]

Some adjustments could be made to weapon crit multi but the stats themselves are just fine

hard disagree, building a strength based crit build and guile based crit build should have equal access to defensive options. Instead the guile based crit build gets to do -more- damage by nature of going even deeper into guile than a strength build can truly ever afford,  while keeping an entire stat's worth of investment available for defensive investment.

There's a reason Va/DH is so reliable. guile.


IF guile -has- to retain crit damage for some insane reason.

Increase all weapon crit damage by 50%, reduce guile crit bonus to .5 (yeah this would hurt any crit builds going over 50 scaled guile)

You're looking at the stats in a vaccum. First of all, strength characters get about 120 more health, they generally get +20 damage from two-hand, and they get to wear super heavy armors that are very powerful. Have you ever seen a super tanky guile user?

In the end, a strength-based crit axe ghost/bk will deal similar damage per turn as an average VA/ghost seiryuu spammer, if a bit less, but they are a bit tankier to make up for that. A ghost/VA single dagger fleur deals the same damage too. And keep in mind, that's assuming you don't miss any crits. A dagger build that misses a crit gets hugely fucked, while an axe build isn't hurting that much since base damage is higher.

Then you have bows, which suck ass. You're better off using a crossbow.

And guns deal just ok damage but are rather weak when you don't crit and get mostly carried by magic gunner.

Swords and spears are not made for crit damage, you just want crit for fleur, or sometimes lightning enchant, but these weapons don't require a focus on it.

Fists have trash crit options, they're usually better as SWA machines unless you do weird stuff or use something like a chakram ghost/monk which can be decent.

And WIL? Last I heard tomes were the only wil weapon and whips are hot garbage. Except lightning exists and deals massive damage. I don't think WIL critters are hurting, but tome attacking is just not an archetype that exists.

Here's my point, you are looking at the stats in a vaccum when that isn't where the issue lies. Weapon and stat balance involves the stats yes, but it also involves the actual items, the talents, the classes, the archetypes. Because nothing is ever in a vaccum, everything revolves around archetypes. 

For instance, say you wanted to buff sword, bow and spear critters? You could buff their classes, you could buff the items directly, you could buff the weapon talents. But when you buff a stat, it encompasses EVERYTHING. Buff strength? And suddenly shaitan BK/Hexers or god forbid excel parashu users are even more powerful. You have to consider the entire spectrum and I believe your solutions are just short-sighted.

Not to mention removing crit multi from guile would make it complete trash

Only 3/5 of strength's weapons benefit from two hand, and that in itself is more of a trade off for the wrist slot/ dual wielding than specifically a strength benefit.
In fact there are methods to fully benefit from two hand with guile and willpower weapons.

I'm completely for removing the hp bonus to strength, I think its a trash idea, it clutters the stat and messes with its identity as an offensive stat.

Everything you said about classes is true, but nothing changed fundamentally about those classes when guile did not exist.

removing or reducing crit damage from/on guile I also feel wouldn't make guile a trash stat, it would just be an offensive, in the same boat strength and will currently are in. Things would be fair.

And yes I am looking at it in a vacuum, but I feel that the issue truly exists in a vacuum and that the classes, items, talents don't really matter as much as you think they do.

[Poruku]

Strength giving hp is fine. And yes the classes matter a lot but that's because you're exclusively looking at crit. I don't believe that every weapon should be able to reach similar high crit damage, that should be reserved to daggers and axes. Guile has the niche of being crit focused inherently. I don't think we should equalize that for other stats, I think balance should be done by looking at builds, archetypes and matchups, not raw numbers on the test server.

[renowner]

I mean I suppose that's a fair point, too. We do have plenty of extremely powerful skills that rival crit damage t begin with.

[Snake]

But of course, let's make critical hits not be a percentage but flat Power increase so it is now equivalent to STR.

[Lolzytripd]

But of course, let's make critical hits not be a percentage but flat Power increase so it is now equivalent to STR.

I mean that would be an interesting change, let guile be the crit damage multiplier and strength have a +damage to crits.

[firehawk11]

That is the nature of games or at least Sigrogana Legends 2. When it comes to some oldie builds it's just not possible and that is because of a few notes.

We get 240 stat points from level 1 to 60 but the real question is how do you make a STR crit build? Well you need STR for damage, SKI for hit, LUK for crit chance, GUI for Crit damage. With how evade was changed so you can avoid everything you drop around around 60 stat points into SKI, so truth is if you soft cap you go roughly 40 STR, 60 SKI, 40 GUI, 40 LUK, that's 180 stat points with 60 remaining so now you got a choice, you can split 60 into vit/def/res or put 60 into Cel, either way you won't have any FP for this build if you want to do jupiter badge fun.

You could put 43 into Aptness to get stats spread out I guess? In the end where does that actually put this build? Which is why STR should never have been made mandatory again for weapons, the old scaling system was a lot more varied then our current setup and this basically proves it.

TL/DR - Don't use STR weapons for CRIT use a GUI weapon.

[Snake]

Armor Penetration when