[Latto]

I'm personally fine with making evade more available and reliable at the cost of it being less effective (I actually preferred the old evade system even if it was weaker. I really don't like total evasion or being forced to pay skill tax.) Right now it's so polarizing for both parties and nerfs to sources of hit/evade just feel bad in general since evade builders also have to build hit to hit other evaders.

Classes like Ghost are a good example of having little to no evade AND hit buffs (also evoker, hexer, demon hunter, etc.) while classes like Spellthief can cap evade by themselves and have hit buffs through Invisible Weapon.

As it stands right now though tank builds have way more diversity because of things like weapon parts/enchants/skills giving hit and/or not requiring actives (purity edge, archer passives) and evasion ignores, debuffs and active hit buffs being more prevalent across classes (magnetize/glowing/basic attacker skills that give additional hit on attack.) It's also MUCH easier to gear/class for tank than dodge builds since every point of dodge can pretty much mean life or death so you have to squeeze out every little bit of it (forced to use breezecloth, unarmored high evade clothing, rogue main class being the only other source of non-evade cap dodge, etc.) Not to mention skill offers crit/hit/skill pool/ice attack and status inflict which are much more applicable to most classes than celerity's turn order/dodge/wind attack.

Basically: give evade less power and more accessibility. Miragewalk and Windswept Gi, which were two of the main sources of evade for classes that didn't have them have both been hard nerfed, making many class combinations just plain suck or unfeasible for evasion. Build diversity is suffering out here.

[FaeLenx]

The minimum and maximum evade limits based on skill and celerity are good. The 0% hit chance is perhaps the worst thing to have be possible in a game like this, especially because many of the hit reducing debuffs can be applied pretty regularly.

[Sawrock]

I don’t have much to contribute to this discussion aside from my own personal biases from almost always playing on-hit builds.

Having to pay the skill tax is what on-hit builds/crit builds had to always do. If they didn’t pay the skill tax, then they were rendered useless. Likewise, celerity builds were only of much use for initiative ganking and dodging builds that had less effective stats to use because of the skill tax. Then, initiative got reworked, so then celerity was even less effective.

As much as having a skill tax may suck, at least it’s better than having hit/crit/dodge builds having at least 40 points themselves below other builds due to a separate tax.

[renowner]

The fact that evade doesn't require luck anymore to be effective, also means that being an evader actually takes less stat points than being a tank. . . As you'd need vitality, defense, and resistance to tank. But for a dodger, you just need an excess of celerity. If you're a str build, that's enough health on its own, pretty much.

I'm not a big fan of it, but its not the worst thing in the world to me either. However what I do have a problem with, is that only a very few select classes have the tools necesarry to give you enough bonus evade in battle.

With the huge nerf to windswept gi, now we're back to . . . Spellthief and. . .Archer classes. . .Shapeshifter. . .And maybe firebird and aquamancer if you're also some kind of rogue or a combination of those two, along with windstream shoes and a skyburn or gain air or something to be a dodger. Even a one bonded youkai install tarrasque is +25 evade from the whole class, which isn't +50 even with windstream. You'd need Sarasha Gi on top of all that!

Losing windtouched gi basically meant that now if you want to play dodge you're a lot more shoe-horned into very specific classes or equipment, instead of just being able to manage with a wind spell and boots.
Being able to have max evade without really devoting any momentum into a buff is also maybe not great but. . . Eh. . . I'd rather dodge be available to a lot more people than a lot less people.

Anyone can tank, with any class combination.

[Senna]

The fact that evade doesn't require luck anymore to be effective, also means that being an evader actually takes less stat points than being a tank. . . As you'd need vitality, defense, and resistance to tank. But for a dodger, you just need an excess of celerity.  If you're a str build, that's enough health on its own, pretty much.

I’m not sure about that part. To actually have a chance to dodge anything, you’re required a hand full in CEL. People tend to put +50 in it as the requirement people use is 150 base. So at max cap, it’s 200, 190 if they can’t reach the cap. Enough to 50/50 people with 240~250 (Not counting the bonus they get from stuff like GUI, Talents and so on). 

You can move that 50 to Def/Res for 25 each, including how much APT and base DEF/RES would give and you’re finding yourself at 30~35 reduction in each. Add guard and other damage reduction options and you’ll end up with 40~50 reduction. 

So no, it’s not fewer the point of stats point. It even out. They still need to build Vitality as well.


But everything is I completely agree with. Without certain class, you're pretty much left to struggle.

[firehawk11]

Honestly the thing is when ti comes to evade is simple. It's not really the amount of CEL you have anymore. Yes you do need CEL but the entire game boils down to a simple concept. Let's say two people have equal CEL or SKI. Where the game really lies in in the ability to play classes and combine classes with other classes that have evasion buffs. All it is in the end is what class has the biggest evasion buff that is stackable with the next highest. Which in turn makes evasion a all or nothing mechanic or use to be but now we got glancing blows and evasion procs. In the end I doubt there is a right system to solve Evade.

Since not hitting feels horrible when playing and not dodging fully when you're a dodge build is annoyning. There should really be some minimal hit rates like 25% chance to hit, which yeah it is still terrible but it's not like you can't always miss evne if the chance is high. However any chances done to evade will then need to be checked against Def & Res. Which is truly better doging damage with a percentile chance or simply taking the damage and soaking it though high reductions?

Maybe it would be better if all classes got soem sort of evade boosting skill instead of a couple and have them all roughly be on par with each other. At least this is for the let dodge be open to all classes and do it well. Secondary to the point but ya know.