[Senna]

With the change to Fire breathing, it loses its ability to break certain field objects, suppose its time for a rework within the skills and how effective it is as it is quite dated. There are many problems with the current Fire breathing.

• The damage is far too low for the momentum sink.
  

• It cost too much momentum for a little reward.
  

• They mainly used it for breaking things like Runes and other field objects if the person waited on the Hyattr for 2 rounds, though with the removal of that, it lost its purpose.
  

They are easily outshone by Salamandra, which puts them in an odd spot.

There are a few things I wish to suggest for its update:

• Channel magic - Including the FP increases, while active, increases the power for fire attacks based on scaled San and increases Cinder tile damage by San/2.
  

• Channel Destruction - Including the small boost to stats, while active, applies a fire bonus to their attacks and increases how much damage they deal to field objects by 10.
  

Fire Breathing: 

As I’ve mentioned in the other thread about battle potions, I would suggest their fire breathing to scale with 100% Fire attack + 2.5% per a level while scaling with weapon hit similar to Vampires.

If Channel magic is active, Fire breathing now uses 100% + San% fire attack + 2.5% per a level. The fireball is larger and hits three tiles instead.

Channel Destruction, Fire breathing now uses 100% + San/2% fire attack + 2.5% per a level. The fireball is larger and hits three tiles instead but creates cinder tiles that scale up to the Hyattr’s SAN scaling.

With both, it maintains the same as it is in the game, however, the damage scaling changes suggested change: 100% + San% fire attack + 2.5% per a level that ignores evasion. Why let it ignore evasion? It uses the same amount of momentum for an Invocation, yet it is much weaker than one.

[Autumn]

Realistically, with the 3 traits associated to the skill, you can think of the SAN + character LV scaling as the "SWA" filler for the skill, Which would be roughly 90-110 SWA depending on if you're really pumped on SAN or not, which leaves you looking at the fire ATK more realistically for the skill. Lets say we want to bump up Fire Breath to be a truly magnificent beast for it's, quite frankly, insane FP cost. Granted a lot of this FP cost is mitigated by the existence of Channel Magic as well.

Currently Fire Breath scales in the following way:

Character LV/2 + Scaled SAN, increased by 100% of your Fire ATK under Channel Destruction. (boosted further by an additional 20% of your fire ATK with lvl 5 Blessing of Hyatt)

With traits it becomes:

Character LV + Scaled SAN, increased by 100% Fire ATK under Channel Destruction, increased further to 150% fire ATK while under Channel Magic. (boosted further by an additional 20% of your fire ATK with lvl 5 Blessing of Hyatt)

We can equate the momentum cost of CD CM to invocations and accomodate for that, and using roughly 100 SWA and 150-170% Fire ATK does seem much too low for an invocation of any kind, so I think bumping up the theoretical SWA and fire ATK scaling slightly will make up for this, the goal being to aim for a max rank invocation without the need for the blessing of Hyatt.

Therefore I propose that the SAN scaling of the skill be increased to 150% instead of 100%, giving Fire Breath a bit more oomph itself when built for (looking at roughly , and also the fire ATK scaling of having both Channel Destruction and Magic active be increased to 80% (from 50%) extra Fire ATK scaling, this should give the Hyattr a huge AoE cone that deals roughly 280-300 base damage, with 40-50 SAN and 90 fire ATK, a very generous investment of both SAN and Fire ATK.

[Poruku]

Indeed, I think a bit of a simple damage buff will do wonders. You're speccing into SAN for a fire atk build here, so there is that opportunity cost + that's your entire race. It should be comparable to a slightly stronger invocation, but doesn't need to become too crazy.

I think evade ignore would be kinda too much.

I also think the prayer tool is kind of built into the power of this skill. Korvara hyattrs are much weaker and that's an issue. Idk how to fix this though

[Senna]

Sure, I don't mind that removal of the evasion ignore on it. I just figured if you're burning 9 momentum and try to get into position due to the attack's core, it's oof if the person just loldodge it. And yes, I'm not considering SL's Hyattr's when making this thread since we don't have access to pray tools in Korvara.

[renowner]

I mean you have to realize that you have to spend 9m to even make it slightly weaker than most normal skills. So thinking of level + Sanctity as an alternative to SWA isn't really true. Especially as the attack doesn't use your weapon, and thus has the same shitty bare-hand accuracy as dance skills and evokes and such.

Salamandra's fire breath just uses your weapon. . .Why shouldn't fire breath on Hyattyrs?

[Autumn]

I mean you have to realize that you have to spend 9m to even make it slightly weaker than most normal skills. So thinking of level + Sanctity as an alternative to SWA isn't really true. Especially as the attack doesn't use your weapon, and thus has the same shitty bare-hand accuracy as dance skills and evokes and such.

Salamandra's fire breath just uses your weapon. . .Why shouldn't fire breath on Hyattyrs?

Uh, most invocations use 100% SWA as well, Character Level + Sanctity at 40 Sanctity means that it'll give the attack 100 extra damage, that is roughly how much SWA an invocation (the exact thing I compared it to) would also use for, again, 9 momentum, you may take a look at these if you are still confused.






Additionally, as per my last post, I explicitly mentioned that the SAN scaling should be increased to 150%, so 40 SAN would contribute 120 extra damage, not 100. Making it roughly the same SWA as a very high power tome.

I did do my research here, the numbers I posted will roughly equate the skill's damage to an invocation.

[renowner]

Invocations are generally completely garbage. . . As a baseline. And require bonus effects and/or the evoker's passive that gives them a global 1.3x damage multiplier to be even worth considering in battle. (The knockdown from Evoker also helps a lot)

Exgalfa as you showed there has bonus damage it gets randomly based on luck and/or using Nerhaven, on top of the 1.3x damage multiplier. And gets to use your weapon. And can knock people down who are near you when you use them. And can have high speed divine words used to throw the technique out more rapidly and/or get to fire off the same turn you knock them down with the first cast to lower your opponent's evasion . . . And even then is generally considered the worst invocation Evoker has access to, and not *that* often worth using in the first place.

Libergande alone already does 100% Swa + 140% Ice attack (150% with a white spirit) + guard break if enchanted + Potentially much lower FP costs, and almost assuredly at least +10 to spell power as an evoker, for 3m. Fire Whip is similar but fire attack in Tactician, Asura fist and eternal darkness for dark attack. . .

They are not comparable. (I also think 125-135 is the higher end of tome power now that materials raise power, discounting spelledge or arcanic things, and also discounting dragon queen's gear.)

My point that even using all the traits and channel magic and channel destruction still amounts to fire breath being pretty garbage, albeit a very fun spectacle still seems to be true. Its flashy and hits a wide area, but has trash accuracy, fairly mediocre damage, and pretty poor momentum management. The cinders too, are pretty weak. The accuracy is probably the biggest issue with it, as spending 9m to basically do nothing when its dodged is tremendously wasteful.

I'll once again say that if people want fire breath to be worth using, but not broken, a good place to start looking would be Salamandra's fire breath. They have interesting traits and an interesting fire breath move that's fine but nothing too extraordinary. The more you use it the more powerful it gets. And it uses your weapon. If you absolutely had to keep it the way it is, not using your weapon at all, it should at least be made unevadable or given a hit bonus when its fully charged up. That would give it the same sort of ability that divine rain has, which makes it worth using despite the meh damage, due to it being a large unevadable spell that does okay damage for 9m that targets every enemy and can blind. Fire breath would obviously be worse, and should maybe get a cooldown at that point, but it'd at least be worth using generally, when built for.

The proposed changes to Channel Magic i'm. . Maybe okay with? Cinders gaining an extra 20 power is probably fine, now that cinders can't really be abused too badly these days. Oil chain does -way- more and can stack with cinders and it didn't break the game open. And it'd make fire breath's cinders a lot less trash if you build high sanctity. Fifty sanctity would let you have level 55 cinders, which is alright. In such a wide area, that could actually be pretty fine. But the bonus damage to fire, just in general based on sanctity is probably way too strong unless its something negligible like, +1 for every 10 scaled sanctity. And I still think it fits channel magic less than channel destruction anyway.

Channel destruction's changes seem fine. Though I don't think Dev wants ways to buff our damage to field objects, since I don't think he wants us having an easier time kicking those deep waste spatial's asses. I think just getting a small boost to fire attack would be fair and fine on top of what it already does.

If channel magic and channel destruction are given slight buffs as proposed, and fire breath itself is maybe given some bonus effect, undodgable, bonus hit, using your weapon's accuracy, gaining more damage, it'd probably be in a finer spot.

Another idea would be to be able to use channel destruction multiple times to raise the accuracy/power of your fire breath further. Giving you the option of spending more momentum over time to make it extremely destructive, which probably fits Hyattyr as a race too in my opinion.

At no point was I confused, don't be an asshole.